0:00
So we basically relocated to Australia as students. Um and but this brand new
0:06
house that we built um it had this freak fire accident um and our entire
0:11
downstairs was sort of caught on fire. So we sort of said okay why don't we take a career break um for 12 months um
0:19
and you know take our daughter with us and travel and gain new experiences. So
0:25
we said okay why don't we document our journey. Welcome to Expert Experts. Today I have something special for you.
0:32
Not one guest, but two. I'm joined by a couple who made the bold decision to leave behind their stable 9 to5 lives in
0:40
Australia to slow travel through the Southeast Asia with their daughter. Their names are Zanesta and Nabil, the
0:47
creators of the project Tiny the Tour. They sold most of what they owned, embraced lifestyle arbitrage, and built
0:54
their life on their own terms while documenting their journey on YouTube and social media. In this episode, we'll
1:00
talk about how they made this massive leap, challenges and surprises along the way, and what life struggling couple
1:08
with a daughter really looks like. So, sit back, relax, and let's explore this expert experience together.
Guest Background & Expat Journey
1:16
So, uh, Naveil, welcome to to Expert Experts. Um, I'm very very happy to have
1:22
you here. Um, theorically, this, uh, conversation was supposed to be, uh, a
1:28
twoon one, let's say, like this. Uh, unfortunately, your wife couldn't join us today, uh, Zanesta, but, uh, I'm sure
1:35
that, uh, you can explain us a little bit more about your shared story because at the end, what you have in your life,
1:42
it's like a an expert story, but it's not only yours. So, it's a it's a a story as a couple. No,
1:48
welcome and uh happy to have you here. Thank you, Mark. I really appreciate the opportunity. Um, as I mentioned, uh,
1:55
Zanesta would have loved to be part of this uh podcast, but unfortunately, our daughter has caught a bug after we
2:02
arrived to Canada. So, she's looking after her. Uh, but yeah, we didn't want to reschedu this. So, here I am. Um, all
2:09
yours. Well, happy and and thankful that you take the time although there is
2:16
health problems at home. So that that's good. But I'm sure that that will be a good episode and that you can
2:22
explain a little bit for both of you. Of course. Um yeah, maybe we should start a little bit uh
2:28
from the beginning. I know that your journey as an expert started as in Australia, but you are not really
2:35
originally from Australia. Where are you from when it happened that you went to Australia? Uh yeah, how was your life?
2:42
Of course. So Zinesta and I, we are both from uh Bangladesh. So we basically
2:48
relocated to Australia as students. Uh so we went there, did our higher education. Um then we basically ticked
2:56
all the boxes that you have um as as a immigrant. Um and uh yeah, so we spent
3:03
um around me 18 years and her uh 16 years. So we spent over 15 years
3:09
combined um in Australia. We were based in Sydney. Um and we had an amazing
3:15
life. We got our higher education. We climbed a corporate ladder. We built a
3:20
house in the suburbs. Um started a family. Build a social circle. Um and
3:25
basically life was good. Uh but yeah, unfortunately um things sort of happened
3:34
like a few things happened in uh the year 2022. Um so yeah, we built this house um in
3:42
the suburbs uh sort of like the Australian dream that people have with the backyard for the kids, etc. Um, and
3:48
but this brand new house that we built, um, it had this freak fire accident. Um,
3:54
and our entire downstairs was sort of caught on fire and, um, uh, we were out
3:59
of the property for around a little over 3 months, uh, hopping from insurance provided houses to another. Um, we lost
4:07
a lot of, um, items that we sort of um, carry over with us over time. Some have
4:14
emotional attachment, some don't. But yeah, that really gave us that perspective
4:19
that um you know, life is very fragile and it's not really worth sort of um
4:27
keeping your dreams and aspirations on hold uh because you really don't know
4:32
what'll happen. Like a fire incident was like a pretty much a big wakeup call for
4:37
us. And also uh the other thing you know sort of living out of our suitcases for
4:43
3 months made us realize that we don't really need a lot of stuff. We accumulate a lot of things over time and
4:49
we think that we need everything but when you upon reflection we sort of realize that we don't really do need
4:56
that much. So um at that point in our careers and our lives um our daughter
5:02
was around 3 years old um and we've always had this longing to travel uh
5:08
particularly around Southeast Asia. Um so yeah so we sort of said okay why
5:13
don't we take a career break um for 12 months um and you know take our daughter
5:19
with us and travel and gain new experiences. Uh but also it we also
5:26
wanted to you know have a business of our own like we were in the corporate sector working for other companies um
5:34
but we wanted to have something of our own but the problem was that we always didn't have any time in Australia like
5:42
you you lead a pretty um sort of busy life uh not only with job but also like
5:48
you know raising a young child um and you don't really have much help around you. Um so it's almost like you don't
5:56
really have that much time left um to do any side hustle. I mean we've tried in
6:02
the past but uh the sort of tenacity and time required we were never able to
6:07
provide that. So um so we couldn't also leave our jobs and live in Australia
6:13
because the cost of living was really high. So we came across this concept of currency hacking or lifestyle arbitrage
6:19
or arbitrage whatever you want to call it. um where we felt like okay if we save enough money um we can actually
6:27
live in areas in Southeast Asia travel put our daughter in preschools international quality preschools over
6:33
there um without having to worry about living costs and that would free up our time to uh you know create something of
6:41
our own so we said okay why don't we document our journey um and yeah that's how we came about YouTube and we started
6:47
documenting our journey and over time then we eventually created business out out of it where we right now really just
6:54
do one-on- ones with people like us who want to take career breaks in Southeast Asia and we help them navigate through a
7:01
personalized uh sort of journey for them which includes their you know finances where to go visas um you know as a
7:09
family alignment as a family etc.
7:14
crazy. I mean, a moment of your life like kind of break it all. No, let's say like this. It class a breakthrough,
7:22
breaking point in your lives. Um, I mean, I think the question is
7:28
obligatory. I suppose you as a grown-up, you take these decisions and then it's just like uh
7:34
you and your wife are adults and then you take the decision. But your daughter at Santa at that point of time is three
7:39
years old. How how was her reaction on that like uh on leaving home and like uh
7:45
I mean I suppose the first three weeks of like jumping homes was not easy for anyone of you especially after the fire
7:52
at home but uh did did your daughter take it more like a kind of an adventure or the fact of like not having a fixed
7:59
home anymore or how did she take it? Yeah, we were lucky in the sense that obviously her age was much like she's
8:06
she was much younger. um 3 years old, they're quite like you can mold them. So
8:12
instead of, you know, sort of like just packing up and leaving one day, uh we leading up to our flight um out of
8:19
Australia, we were sort of um telling her, look, we're going on this adventure. We're going to be visiting
8:25
all these different countries. We to tell her what countries mean um you know, and all those sort of stuff. So she then eventually became quite
8:32
excited. Um but you you're right. Um, obviously if you if we were just asked
8:37
as adults, it's much easier, but as with a child, you just never know. Um, so we
8:42
were actually quite worried about that. I mean, especially because she's quite a
8:48
sort of, um, social kid. So, she really enjoyed, you know, having her friends in
8:54
her daycare and things like that. So, um, yeah. So we knew that because we were working or basically trying to
9:01
build this business. Um we we and and she is a social uh being, we had we made
9:07
that decision early on that we will be sending her to uh international preschools with in every country that we
9:14
were going to go to. Um and we were going to slow travel. So we're going to set ourselves up in a country or a city
9:20
for 3 months. Um and then build some kind of routine over there. Um obviously
9:26
it's disruptive. Every 3 months you've got to move along. So we were quite worried about that. But thankfully you
9:32
know um she has actually thrived under those conditions but again it's like a
9:37
coin toss right like anything can happen. So we were lucky in that sense that um you know um things actually
9:44
worked out for her um not so bad. Nice. So the original plan was 12 months
9:52
but that was 2022 and now we are in 2025. So you haven't stopped traveling
9:58
since then. Uh what happened with there? So like you
10:03
said okay this is working for us and then you continued on that lifestyle. Yeah. So, so we actually left Australia
10:11
in uh July 2023, but all those issues that happened was in 2022 and then we
10:18
sort of planned logistically and financially took us around um 7 8 months to get all that sorted out course and
10:25
then in mid mid July 2023 we left. It was initially a one-year plan, but as we
10:30
were getting close to that one uh 12 month um sort of we realized that we
10:36
liked this lifestyle and we wanted to do it for another year and we also felt like you know like with any business you
10:42
need to give it a little bit more time. Um so yeah we just decided we'll do it for another year. Uh so yeah so one year
10:49
then turned into two. Um but yeah, we are now pretty much at the end of our
10:54
sort of travel um journey. Um we are in Canada at the moment because my
11:01
sister-in-law is getting married. So we came here for that and then we're going to be here for a month and then we'll be
11:07
going back to Sydney uh for a few months um to sort of reccalibrate to see what
11:14
the future holds for us uh after that. Cool. Um just maybe out of curiosity and
11:22
for the listeners to understand I mean you said south as Southeast Asia Southeast Asia there's a lot of
11:27
countries uh can you name more or less quickly how many countries did you visit
11:33
during this time abroad? Yeah. So in Southeast Asia we visited
11:39
four countries. Um so um for us it was important that we slow travel. we sort
11:45
of build like that routine and every city that we lived in um our main idea
11:51
was to live there as locals because we wanted to test that city to see if we
11:57
could live there long term. So it wasn't just about hopping cities and you know
12:02
putting it up on Instagram look you know I've gone to all these cities and countries. So there were four countries
12:08
that we visited. It was uh Malaysia, um Indonesia, Thailand and Vietnam. And
12:14
there were two other countries that we visited as part of this travels, but those were mainly because of family. So
12:20
I mean Bangladesh because my parents live there and in Canada because my wife's family is settled here.
12:27
Nice. Cool. So you are also kind of on a hunting of like uh I was discussing this
12:34
with a with in episode with a digital nomad. No and the the whole concept for
12:39
example of like nomading in the idea of until you find a specific place that you
12:45
like too much to continue nomading. Uh so that's a little bit the concept in
12:50
there. Um how was this cultural adaptation every
12:56
three months? I mean I struggle because I switch every three years of country uh or the last eight years of my life has
13:03
been this uh in three different countries and I'm already struggling in the idea of adapting culturally to there
13:10
learning the language or trying to live as much as you can as a local as you
13:15
were describing. How was it for you? It's it's it's a very short time. How do you try to
13:21
condense all that experience in in in three months? Yeah, that's a really good question. I
13:27
mean, um, let's not like I'll be honest with you, like moving every two to 3
13:33
months is a challenge. It's disruptive. Um, and I personally feel that we don't
13:41
want to do this forever, you know, like for us, it's always good to have that
13:46
home base. Um and that's why that threemon home base um gave us a bit of
13:52
um I suppose grounding uh feeling. Um but to answer your question um we feel 2
14:01
to 3 months is a good enough time for you to get a taster of of what that place could look like for you if you
14:08
were to move there long term. So the thing that we would do is obviously we would we would get a property um live in
14:16
a location like ideally an expat based location because if we were to live
14:21
there long-term that's where we would usually live so it gives us a sort of feeling of what that neighborhood is
14:27
like. uh we put our daughter to a preschool. So that also gives us an understanding of what is schooling like
14:34
um we did get sick uh over time. So we also went to you know we didn't have to
14:39
go to hospital thankfully but we went to healthcare um centers. So you you get a
14:45
bit of a taster of what the healthcare looks like. Um obviously we would cook,
14:50
do groceries, uh we would also eat outside. um would go to a gym and we
14:55
will go to co-working space uh because that gives us a so all in all it gives
15:01
you a pretty condensed sort of call it like a crash course of what that place could look like. Um I'm not taking away
15:08
the fact that okay if you live in a place for 3 months you will know everything about that place but it's
15:14
good enough for us to I suppose make that call as to whether we would even
15:20
want to live there long term. Yeah. grasping the idea of what it would be if you would stay there. No.
15:26
Yeah. I mean, you touch a couple of points that I want to ask you. I now try to
Biggest Challenges & Surprising Moments
15:32
organize in my mind in which order should I put it? maybe on on the more challenging approach of things because
15:38
at the end you're traveling between countries and for us for example Europeans jumping from a European
15:45
country to another inside of the European Union if you have a European Union passport or that it's relatively easy but what
15:52
about the bureaucracy what about the visas what about all these processes that I suppose
15:58
it's is enough time three months to be preparing or part of this job that you
16:03
did during this six seven months in Australia before leaving was also preparing all the visas and all the
16:08
paperwork to be able to do that in in the future. Yeah. Uh look, we are lucky that we
16:15
lived in Australia and then became Australian citizens. So as an Australian citizen like the passport has quite a
16:24
lot of strength like you would have in European countries. So most places you
16:30
would get visa on arrival like say for example like those four countries. So in Malaysia we get 3 months on
16:36
arrival. So we don't really need a visa for that. Um in Indonesia
16:42
um and Vietnam you've got to get e visas. So you could do that online. Uh
16:47
you can tell them whether you want to stay for uh you know 2 months, 3 months,
16:52
whatever they're they allow you to stay for. Uh in Thailand it was a little bit
16:57
different because in Thailand um they would give you uh I think 30 days on
17:03
arrival for an Australian citizen. I mean that's at least what it was when we went there. Uh and I know that they
17:09
change um often so don't quote me on it. When we did it was 1 month and then you
17:14
could get another 30 days uh you could get like you could pay and get an extension. Um so but if if Thailand had
17:22
given us like three months on arrival like like Malaysia, we would have probably lived there uh for three months. So um yeah, you could you could
17:29
do all of these things um sort of online thankfully. Uh and it it was pretty
17:35
straightforward. I mean you you just give the basic information, you pay the fees, and off you go. Um it wasn't a lot
17:43
of paperwork uh for us thankfully. Well, that's good at least because
17:48
normally one of the most painful parts on and repetitive topic and challenge in this podcast is definitely the
17:54
bureaucracy and the paperwork when arriving to a place. Yeah. No, you you are correct. Like say
18:00
for I I'll give you an I'll give you just an instance like in our case it was slightly different because we were
18:06
sort of like that digital nomad lifestyle but in the future if we are to sort of
18:12
settle somewhere then there will be paperwork like say as an example say if I decide to move to Malaysia I will have
18:20
to decide which visa am I going to take cuz you've got the digital nomad visa you've got MM2H you've even got like
18:27
parents visa for kids who go international school. So whichever pathway you take or even business visas
18:34
whichever pathway you take then you'll be paperwork for that and that would require a bit of effort. But in our case
18:42
because we were sort of you know staying there short term um you could navigate through that easier but obviously the
18:48
con is that you've got to move every 3 months or two months. Of course, another
18:54
topic that I wanted to ask you about it, what about the financial fears at the end? No, like I suppose you were coming
19:01
from a pretty comfortable standard comfortable bubble, let's say, of a 9-to-F5 uh office job with good
19:09
salaries, etc., etc., and suddenly you jump on a leap of faith, let's say, like this. You said that you had some
19:16
business plan and then uh of course you you kind of introduced and I suppose
19:21
that also help uh uh with a tiny detour project and that I suppose it it kind of
19:28
revenue income somehow some minor extra money into it but um
19:35
how did you deal with the pressure of uh I don't know being the two things from
19:41
from life of 952 office to win your life to suddenly being your own business
19:46
owner and probably not working regular hours but rather when you can
19:52
etc etc. How how was it for you? Yeah. So I'll break it up into two parts. One the transition from a 9 to5
19:58
to a business and then the other one is the money. So let me talk about the transition first. Um it was hard. It was
20:06
very hard because we had never tried this before. Um and of course our
20:13
experience or our careers were very different to what we're doing now which is content creation and consultancy. Um
20:20
my job was people management um in uh in in in customer experience and Zina she
20:28
was in investment banking. So from there to get up on camera, do YouTube, uh try
20:34
to find leads, convert them into clients and you know then work with clients on
20:40
you know things like doing videos for them and so it was completely new. So we
20:45
knew what we were getting into that this was a green field for us and there will be quite a bit of time when we might not
20:51
have any money coming in. But of course like you know when you have a nine-to-five job it's quite regimented
20:57
like you know you go in your calendar is filled um you do your job and then you
21:03
come back whereas with a and then you've also got managers you've got senior people you got people that you are
21:09
managing as well. So it's quite structured and you know the beast that you're dealing with. Whereas here
21:16
sometimes you would you would go up and down you know because there's no one
21:21
telling you what to do right you you got to figure it out all by yourself and you've got to take accountability got
21:28
take responsibility. So it was hard and you know it takes a bit of time to get
21:35
used to that but you've got to keep reminding yourself that no one's coming to help you. You got to do it yourself. So uh yeah it is a challenge but I it
21:43
there is there is nothing that can teach you other than doing it. Do you know what I mean? Like some things are
21:49
learned. Okay. So now let me just talk about the money. So as I said because we knew that
21:56
we probably won't have any money coming in. What we did is we saved for the year
22:01
like we we came up with like a monthly figure that we felt would would live a
22:07
comfortable life. Um, and then we multiplied by by 12, right? So, so we
22:13
said, okay, we would need $4,000 Australian dollars every month. And then we saved $60,000 Australian dollars.
22:20
Once we saved 60,000, then we were like, okay, what if we like it and we want to
22:26
stay for another 12 months? Like, I think we should have some It happened. Yeah. Which happened, right? So, then we
22:33
basically save for another 12 months. So, that's what we did. we went with $120,000
22:40
uh Australian dollars and uh available for us. Um but yeah, within six seven
22:47
months we started getting some money from YouTube u ad fees, ad revenue from
22:52
YouTube and then we started doing a lot of client work like and everything sort of we stumbled across like we didn't
22:59
plan it. So our daughter was going to all these preschools and they were quite expensive. So eventually a lot of these
23:07
all these preschools became our clients. So we would basically get her to go to
23:13
these schools for almost free and then get some money from them to do a video for them uh about the schools. And then
23:21
we were doing the same for like the accommodation for the co-working spaces for gyms etc. Because if we're teaching
23:29
people about you know career breaks and travel these are the main things that people want to know about. Um, and then
23:35
we started doing these one-on- ones cuz people were coming to us and saying, "Hey, we would like to do something, but
23:40
we're worried about the money or we're worried about, you know, how what will people think and things like that." So,
23:45
that's when we started doing one-on- ones. Um, yeah. So yeah that's that and and look it's never easy because you
23:54
know when you are doing a job you know like every month or every fortnite or
24:00
whatever your frequency of of salary payment is like you will get that uh you know money coming in. So you don't
24:08
really need to worry too much. You can spend u like you like you know like cuz you know the
24:13
money is going to come. Whereas in this two years, we've become quite frugal and
24:19
we've become quite um like aware of where we spend our money like we've
24:24
budgeted like and we tracked every single expense over the last couple of years and that has and obviously you
24:31
know becoming minimalists helped as well cuz your attraction towards um you know
24:37
materialistic things reduces a lot. So then you just know okay what's important
24:43
to you like I know you know my accommodation is important because I got to live somewhere uh my daughter's
24:49
schooling is important um I have to put aside certain amount of money for my business cuz I've got editors and
24:55
thumbnail editors etc. Um I've got certain softwares I've got to pay for and then you know I've I've got to
25:02
accommodate for food. So all of these things I've sort of figured out okay this is the amount of money that I'll need. Um actually we did end up spending
25:11
more than 4,000 every month. We ended up around 4,500 on average.
25:17
But yeah, so so yeah, it's not easy. None of this is easy. But the
25:23
alternative is that for us that was even harder. you know the even though we
25:30
weren't making any money for a long period of time like we were much more calmer and like you know happy whereas
25:37
in Australia even though we were making a lot of money we were stressed out all the time with the bills and all of the
25:45
sort of stuff. Um, so yeah, it really depends on what you want out of life. And for us, this life meant a lot more
25:53
that even though the transition from a 9 to5 to a business owner and even though
25:59
the transition from getting a salary to having really inconsistent income and
26:05
living off our salavings was hard, um, we knew we were working towards
26:10
something. And when you have like a goal and you're working towards something, it's it becomes a bit easier um to sort
26:18
of tell yourself that you know you have a finish line or you're working towards something you know
26:24
you have some motivation behind. Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. It's very interesting also the part of
26:29
like being minimalistic in the sense of like I don't know less things because at the end if you're moving every three
26:34
months it's not that you can buy a an expenses an expensive lamp and bring it to you every changing every oh I have a
26:42
very nice table but yeah what what do you do with that table when you leave sure um I do have a question from a from
26:50
a content creator perspective maybe more than from the expert perspective why content creation like
26:59
when is the moment that you decided uh we start creating content in YouTube and
27:04
in and the social media and that become your main stream of income on on on the
27:10
go coming from your backgrounds which are clearly not uh related to video editing
27:16
or I don't know like being a designer no like it's it's a complete different field. No, no, you you are correct. Like
27:22
the easiest option would have been that I I take like a remote role in my
27:28
previous field and my wife does the same. But we wanted to do something of our own
27:35
like we didn't want to trade time for money. And for us, we've always been big fans
27:40
of YouTube and we've loved YouTube all the time. So we felt like, okay, what is
27:47
the business? like the business is to be able to help more people like us and in
27:52
the process get fees for your service. So YouTube became the avenue where we
27:59
showcase our lifestyle uh through to sort of allow people to live vicariously
28:05
and then if they feel um uh the inkling is enough for them then they can reach
28:12
out and then take our service because um if you want to do this by yourself you
28:17
got to do it by like us like make lots of lots of mistake and potentially um
28:22
you know make expensive mistakes that you've got uh you know pay through through funds whereas if you if you if
28:30
you learn from someone who's already done it like you can learn from their mistakes to not make those mistakes and
28:36
do it much faster. Um so we never wanted to become YouTubers. Do you know what I
28:42
mean? So YouTube was always a vehicle to showcase um what we're doing and how we
28:48
do this. Um but the business element of it we were quite clear always that it
28:53
was this lifestyle that we wanted to sell as a service.
28:58
Nice. I have a couple of questions more before we jump to the to the next section and both of them are related to
29:07
traveling as a family like the first one probably more on the direction of your
29:12
new lifestyle as a couple. Yeah. Um, what is the biggest challenges that you find out as a as a couple as a
29:20
as you and your wife suddenly living this life and then working together
29:26
also? That's an important one. I suppose it's a lot of communication in there that it didn't happen until while while
29:32
constantly moving. Um, did did it change a lot your relationship due to the due to the move?
29:40
Yeah, it did. Um, so the first few months was very hard and
29:46
I'll tell you why. Because when you live in a place like Australia, you live a
29:52
very autopilot life, right? So you really don't have much space to
29:58
allow for, you know, the fights to happen or the deep conversations to
30:03
happen. So a lot of those things were sort of inside you know and then as soon
30:09
as we had the space and the time they just came out. So so the first few
30:14
months was hard to adjust to that because there were you know all those things that came up and you had to
30:20
navigate and manage that. Then you've also got that fact of uh you know like
30:26
staying together all the time and also you know trying to build a business together. um you would bud heads have
30:33
different strategies of ways to do things. Um and because we haven't done this before, like sort of figuring out a
30:41
way to respect each other's opinions and um and then figure out, okay, who's
30:47
actually better at what and then assigning those specialized roles to to one another. Um, those took a while and
30:56
it it it like you have fights and you have all those sort of stuff, but eventually you
31:02
get to a point where you sort of figure out your lanes. You realize, okay, I'm good at this, you're good at that. Why
31:09
don't we just do that and not double up and then the things that are big ticket items, we will decide together um as
31:16
business partners. And then on the family side of things of of course the same thing like you know with the child
31:22
like how do you manage that? Um so yeah it's not easy it's hard but I think
31:29
at the end of it I can get I can tell you this that the relationship becomes
31:35
stronger um through this process than you just leading a very uh autopilot
31:42
life and not actually talking about the deeper things. So, I'm actually grateful
31:47
for this opportunity because it allowed us to become closer as a family. Uh, and
31:54
I think we've spent a lot more time as a family together. Like even if I take the
31:59
business side away, like us just as a family traveling to all these different places, uh living as locals in all these
32:06
different cities, um you know, learning on the go, it sort of gets you to become much more
32:13
closer because it's almost like us against the world, like not in the literal sense, but you know, you're sort
32:19
of like trying to figure it out on the go. Um, so yeah, you you become a lot more comfortable as um, you know, a
32:26
couple and as a family. I think I'm in a much we are in a much better space than
32:31
we were when we were in Australia. That's cool. I mean, sometimes you need
32:38
to pass through the rough parts. Yes. Establish the hard or settle the
32:44
relationship into a harder ground. No, let's say this. What about
32:51
the experience of your daughter switching schools? I mean, how does it work? The fact of like jumping from an
32:57
international school to international school are the schools that they are in the kind of same of circle or and then
33:03
they allow you to switch from one to the other and how does education work in
33:08
general in that sense? And how does maybe also friendships and relations
33:14
that she generated through this whole process uh have been uh for for her while growing up here and there? No.
33:22
Yeah. So uh the thing that helped us the most is her age. So she wasn't going to
33:28
schools like proper schools like grade 1, 2, etc. She was in a preschool right? So those are kindergartens and things
33:34
like that. So, a lot of these international kindergartens, they allow temporary uh or or c or short-term
33:42
enrollments. Okay. Big schools do not allow that usually. So, we were lucky in that sense about
33:49
her age. um in terms of these movements um obviously it's not easy when you sort
33:56
of build friendships and then have to move but see she sort of figured in her head like she figured out like this is
34:02
the gig like you know you do every 3 months and then you move. Um but in the process the positives were that she is
34:09
very quick to make friends like she would go into a new school and then become friends like within like a day or
34:16
two. Um the obviously uh and then in the process she also like all these
34:21
different schools she learned different languages. She learned Bahasa, she learned Mandarin, Vietnamese, like she
34:27
she's learned a lot of these languages. Um obviously she's not fluent in them like she forgets and stuff like that but
34:33
while she's there she picks it up pretty quickly. I mean I guess it's much easier when you are at that age.
34:39
Sure. The the the negative thing obviously is that you don't build deeper
34:45
relationships. you know. Um but what we have tried to do is um you know we've
34:52
we've also sort of built um friendships with the parents like of her friends
34:58
like the the the closer friends and we've tried to stay in touch with them and once in a while they would do video
35:04
calls and things like that so that they remember each other. Um but yeah I mean I know for a fact
35:10
that into the future a lot of these relationships would probably not remain.
35:16
Um, but that's just part of the game. Like when you when you sign up to like a digital nomad lifestyle like this, this
35:22
is just the the part of life, you know, like you wouldn't build like long-term
35:28
relationships like you would if you were sort of settled somewhere. Um, and this is the reason why we're going to be
35:34
taking that next few months in Australia to figure out what we do next. Um, chances are we will try to settle
35:41
somewhere for longer, like a year or two. um so that you can have those
35:46
things like that she misses out and also we miss out in terms of uh building a
35:52
social circle. So uh we'll see what happens in the future but obviously this
35:57
was a test drive for us you know like trying to figure out whether this would work like uh that's just that relocation
36:04
would work as well because like think about it like if you move to a country
36:10
and then you live there for over 15 years the chances of you relocating becomes very low because you're set in
36:17
your ways you have a social circle so you know everything and people like comfort people are usually hesitant
36:23
towards change especially big changes like this. So we needed something like
36:28
this to sort of even figure out whether we want to do this like like a permanent
36:33
relocation uh from Australia. M but it might be that for example the
36:39
education systems uh force you to stay longer periods of time that what you might thought at the beginning also
36:47
because as you said like bigger schools for from age five six then they start
36:53
requiring you to stay at least the whole year there yeah absolutely but what I'll
36:59
say about education Mark is that you know what are we comparing are we comparing
37:06
public schools to public schools. If it's public schools to public schools, um Australia versus Southeast Asia,
37:13
definitely Australia wins. Uh but in Australia, even though public schools are free, um it like the the public the
37:22
quality of the school depends on your post code, you know, and that's pretty much the same in most western countries,
37:29
right? So, if you want to go to a good public school, you've got to you've got to live in a good neighborhood. And that
37:35
comes with high council rates, high property prices, etc. So, you do pay
37:41
like in a way. Do you know what I mean? But if I if I compare private schools uh
37:47
to private schools, I do not think there is much of a difference. Like if in a
37:52
private like a good private international school in say a Malaysia,
37:57
um there isn't really much difference between that and a private school in Australia. Um the fundamental difference
38:04
is the price. So Australia will be more expensive. Um but the positive in in in
38:10
in an international school is that you get multiple nationalities whether it's
38:15
the students or the teachers. Um therefore they get a much more like
38:21
well-rounded global outlook towards life and education which you possibly won't
38:28
get in say like a place like Sydney even though there are a lot of um sort of
38:34
people from different uh backgrounds there. Uh private schools are usually quite exclusive. um you know, you've got
38:41
to pay like $40,000 plus a year to put people into private
38:46
schools. So, most people would send them to public schools. And obviously, if I compare public schools to a private
38:53
international school in uh say Malaysia, the private school would win any day.
38:59
I see. Nice. That was a big like mindset shift for us
39:04
as well. Yeah, I can imagine. Of course. I mean, it's a big decision. you know, like the education of your children. Come on. Uh
39:13
um I would say before just we jump to the next to the next section. Uh yeah.
Expat Life Hack & Advice
39:19
Do you have any one piece of advice that big piece of advice even if it's like a
39:24
I don't know mid-career professional who is just saying okay this I go I
39:30
sorry I cannot swear in YouTube. uh um I quit my 9 to5 and I'm doing something
39:38
different also or or anything deep related from your experience living abroad.
39:43
Yeah. Um I think that the biggest advice is like the one size doesn't fit all. So
39:52
the first thing that someone has to be very like you've got to be very honest about your personal circumstances. Like
39:59
say if you're someone who uh you know has like a lot of loans and things like
40:05
that then you know just quitting and just leaving is not going to solve any
40:11
problem. In fact the chances of you like having a horrible experience is much higher. Do you know what I mean? Like
40:18
so. So I would say that the first thing like if you really do want to do
40:23
something like this I would I would say that you know no matter how difficult
40:28
the situation you find yourself in like say you hate your job or you hate your life there or whatever I would tell
40:35
yourself that you know it's a good thing that it helps you make that decision that you want to change and do something
40:42
like this but then it also allows you the time and you have that you know goal
40:48
towards like the motivation. Don't just up and leave tomorrow. Plan logistically
40:54
and financially. Um and then make that move. Uh and as far as making that move
40:59
is concerned, do not sort of sit on it like buy that plane ticket out like that one-way ticket. Um because that would
41:07
ensure that the likelihood of you actually taking that flight out is is higher. Uh because if you sit on it and
41:14
say, "Oh, you know, I'm planning this, I'm doing this." Even if you save some money, chances are that money will be
41:20
spent somewhere else like something will happen like an emergency or whatever. But if you buy that ticket and you're
41:26
just focusing on it and you're working towards it, then the chances of it happening is much higher.
41:32
Cool. So Nil, uh I will say that we jump to a
41:38
little bit the the mini games that I prepared for the cultural deep dive. I mean, I call it mini games, but at the
41:43
end it's just a rapid fire questions. Um, hey there everyone. I hope you're enjoying this episode so
41:50
far. Remember that the best way to stay tuned with the latest episodes of the podcast
41:55
is by clicking on subscribing YouTube and in your favorite audio platform. For extra content and information, follow,
42:02
like, and comment on our social media and visit our website expatexpert.com.
42:07
Thank you for supporting our podcast and let's continue with the episode. The first one that I that I prepared for
Cultural Deep Dive & Fun Comparisons
42:12
today it's u the travel superlatives let's say like this. So yeah basically I
42:19
would ask you to I give you a category and then you tell me from where do you
42:26
find that uh specific topic uh on the countries that you lived on.
42:31
Sure. Uh first one that I have it's the most surprising or shocking food experience.
42:40
shocking food experience. H I would say
42:46
I would say Thailand has some pretty shocking foods like you'd have like
42:52
scorpions and things like that. Um the other one in Southeast Asia which is
42:57
pretty shocking or actually shocking to me was they have this fruit called durian
43:02
um which is like a jack fruit, right? But it's very uh like it's pungent
43:09
and but people love it there. But it's kind of funny that when you go to apartment buildings and like in the lift
43:15
you would have like notices like that say do not bring durian into the building and things like that. So um
43:22
yeah. So that was a bit funny and shocking. Nice. What about uh friendliest locals
43:29
people? Uh friendliest locals have to be Thai. Thai people are the friendliest.
43:34
Okay, cool. Uh, most stressful transport system.
43:41
Um, most stressful transport systems.
43:48
Uh, okay. I will I'll be honest like we have used like we haven't used public transport that much. So, we were mainly
43:56
sort of traveling with ride shares. So whether it's cars or um or that I would
44:02
say the stressful one is Jakarta in Indonesia because of the traffic. Um and the
44:08
second one would be uh Bangkok. Nice. Because in Bangkok like if you if
44:14
you ever if you ever been to Bangkok and you get on one of those grab bikes like
44:19
it's almost like you are calling death with you you know like you just don't
44:25
know if you will come out of come out of it alive. But the problem is the traffic
44:30
is so bad that you're so tempted to go on those bikes just to save time. But
44:36
those guys like you know they they would drive like crazy sometimes. And yeah,
44:41
there were a couple of times when I felt um like it was very like neck and neck,
44:47
but I still got on it the next day because of the traffic, you know. Yeah.
44:52
So, yeah, I would say in Jakarta and Bangkok most stressful.
44:59
What about the place that gave you the most wow moment in you arrive and it's
45:05
impressive and you were not expecting that? Um,
45:10
wow moments like in terms of what natural beauty or what? N natural or like a
45:17
tourist spot or whatever. So there were two wow moments. Um, one
45:23
was when we first came well like that our first time we went to Koala Lumpur.
45:28
Mhm. Um, like even though I had been to Koala Lumpur before, me personally, my wife Mazinesta hadn't, it was a very long
45:35
time ago. So I really don't have much memory of it. So the amount of
45:41
skyscrapers I saw there I was surprised because sometimes you live in your bubble and you feel like oh you know
45:47
certain you you make assumptions right like certain countries are advanced or not advanced etc. So that was a bit
45:53
um you know sort of wow for me. Uh the other one I'll have to say is um when we
45:59
went to um um Chiang Mai in Thailand. Um the just the the laidback sort of and
46:07
spiritual I suppose like vibe of the place like was a bit wow for me cuz I never sort of
46:14
felt like some place could be that chilled out cuz you know you're sort of like if you
46:20
live in a big city like you're quite often on the go like go go go. So you really had to sort of I had to think and
46:27
say okay all right this is a bit relaxed so you got to adjust accordingly.
46:33
Cool. Never been so I need to put it on the on the list of places that too many
46:39
places to visit in this world. Uh best food you encountered so far. Uh
46:47
okay. So best food for me like in terms of uh I would say Malaysian food
46:52
and the second would be Thai food. Nice.
46:58
Easiest to travel with kids. Easiest to travel with kids? Um
47:07
uh I would say Malaysia. Nice. And the last one that I have for this
47:14
mini game, it's best health care system. The places you've been best healthcare um Malaysia.
47:23
Nice. The second one that I um prepared. It's
47:28
more like a lifestyle arbitrage. I would say like this. Uh I would like you to compare your life in Australia versus
47:35
your life traveling around South East area plus these two extra countries and
47:40
decide if you where is the best uh approach or where
47:45
do you prefer to do that let's say like this sure uh first question that I have it's uh
47:51
best value for housing best value for housing um I would say
47:59
Daang Vietnam Nice. Very specific.
48:04
I love it. No, because I tracked everything, right? I know.
48:10
Uh, where did you find the best food for under $5?
48:18
Best food for under $5. It's got to be street food. So, um,
48:25
Vietnam has the most value for money. Nice. Like you can get a fa uh for like like a
48:34
dollar. Like fa is like the soupy thing they have or Yeah. Or even like that those baguettes like that they have like
48:41
bun me you can get it for a dollar. Yeah. Nice. Easier place to make friends. Would it
48:49
still be home in Australia or traveling around?
48:54
Um, so in Australia it's not easy to make
49:00
friends at all. Like and that's that's like my experience having lived there for so long. Um, in Australia people um
49:08
sort of have friends within their uh ethnicity. So you've got like little
49:13
bubbles of friendships everywhere. People are very friendly and um cordial,
49:19
but to make deep friendships it's not easy. Um, in terms of in um um Southeast
49:26
Asia, I would say that you would probably make the most amount of friends in expat
49:32
groups because and doesn't like it doesn't matter where they're from like but they are an expat. So, you would
49:39
make the most amount of friends there. Um, and the best place to make friends I would say is co-working spaces.
49:46
Nice. Um and you know the expats in all these countries are pretty much the same because they've left their own country
49:52
to come here. So when they see another expat they're more drawn towards them. Um but if I say in terms of
50:00
Yeah. Yeah. But if I say in terms of locals because Thies are very friendly like you are more likely to be able to
50:06
make friendships with uh local ties. Yes. Yeah. What about the play zones for kids
50:15
Australia versus the places that you find uh traveling around? Right. So, so in Australia, you've got a
50:22
lot of public parks which has play areas and things like that. Um and you can
50:27
take your kids there for free. Um but and of course you've got indoor play areas as well. But in in Southeast Asia,
50:36
uh even though you do have parks with play areas, the the weather doesn't always permit it, you know, because
50:41
sometimes it's too hot and you don't want to take your kids there. Um so you would you would rely a lot more indoor
50:48
play areas. Um so I would say the best indoor play areas in Southeast Asia I
50:54
would say is in Bangkok. Oh wow. Okay. Wasn't expecting the other
51:00
one. Yeah. Nice cuz we we we took her to like indoor play areas like a lot of them like in
51:05
all the countries all the cities we went and and I felt like Bangkok has the most amount of it and like yeah they're
51:12
pretty pretty good as well. Nice. Last one that I have it's the sense of
51:18
community uh while being an Australian while being traveling.
51:25
Yeah, obviously in Australia I had an existing group of friends. So I had a
51:30
community there of my own. Um obviously I didn't have that when I was traveling.
51:35
So I had to sort of create like little communities. And you know what the biggest challenge is when you are moving
51:43
people do not want to emotionally invest in you because they like if there are especially if especially if there's
51:49
someone who uh you know live there already. So because they know that
51:54
you're going to be leaving. So, chances are you would then make friends with other digital nomads um or experts who
52:03
are open to being friends with someone who's here for 3 months.
52:08
I see. Cool. Uh thanks a lot for all the responses on that one. Um
52:16
I will jump quickly to the only question that we haven't yet answered from the
Audience Q&A
52:21
audience that I ask to to the followers of the podcast to ask and it's from Anna
52:27
Hisa uh which is asking if you kept your
52:33
inner circle of friends during all these years or all this time traveling abroad
52:38
and if you did with some of your friends how did you connect with them?
52:43
So is the question sorry I'm just trying to understand the question. So is it more around the friends we made through
52:49
our travels are we still in touch with them is that I think it's relating to the friends that you had in in Australia at that
52:56
point of time and if you keep touch with them but of course if if you had made friends during the process of course I
53:02
suppose you introduce people into the circle maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Um so obviously they're
53:08
separate friend groups right cuz the friendships that I've made while traveling um those were quite sort of
53:17
like um you know you were both passing by and you just know that you've got
53:22
like that very short period of time together. Um so but out of them there
53:27
were there there are like in the last couple of years we made like around four like really close friends and um we have
53:35
kept in touch like through WhatsApp um and and the friends in Australia um
53:41
obviously we have remained in touch um through WhatsApp as well but it's not
53:49
the same because you know as you know uh they like in Australia you've got a pretty um sort of
53:58
uh life that's rigid and and robotic. So I know the kind of lifestyle that they
54:04
have. Um you know, you're going to go to work and then you're going to come back home. Uh you're going to have to look
54:09
after your kid till they go to sleep and then at the end of the day like you've got to cook as well and then at the end
54:15
of the day you might watch some Netflix to unwind and on the weekends you got to do things around the house. You got to
54:20
do grocery runs and things like that. So people stay busy with that. Uh but yeah time to time I have stayed in touch with
54:27
them and WhatsApp is the best way is the main way we stay in touch and uh
54:33
sometimes would do video calls. Uh but yeah it's it's it's not been as much cuz
54:39
we ourselves have been quite busy as well like you know moving as well as
54:44
with the business empowering but it's mainly been through WhatsApp. We've we've tried our best to stay in
54:52
touch with through WhatsApp. Yeah, makes sense. Nice. So, with that done, I
Guest Promotion
54:58
would say I I give you a little bit the stage to tell us a little bit more about Tiny Dour, the the
55:05
the YouTube channel of course, but also what what is around it? Uh where can the
55:10
audience found you? Uh what what are your projects currently?
55:16
Sure. So, um, we are mainly on two social platforms. Um, I mean, we have
55:23
the other ones as well, but we're not as active on it. So, the main one obviously is YouTube. So, it's Tiny Detour. If you
55:30
type Tiny Detour on YouTube, you'll find us. So, we would post a long form video
55:35
every week, once a week. And these videos are mainly around comparison of a
55:41
lifestyle in the West versus in Southeast Asia. you know what to expect in Southeast Asia, the lifestyle there,
55:47
location arbitrage, currency hacking. Those are the sort of topics that we cover. And we do a weekly video, long
55:54
form, and then obviously we would then do short form videos every every other day. Um, and then we are quite active on
56:00
on Instagram as well. Again, tiny detour on Instagram. Um, I'll get like you already have our details, so you put it
56:07
on the description. If you don't, I'll get it to you. Um, we'll be there. So, yeah. So, yeah. So these are the
56:13
ways uh you can connect with us or you know watch our content over there. Um, in terms of our projects, uh, right now,
56:22
uh, we obviously do, as I mentioned, we do one-on- ones, uh, with people who are interested, and the one-on- ones are
56:28
very tailored to your personal circumstances, but we have been working on creating a a a community/cohort
56:36
course where we basically take through people through a six week uh, cohort as
56:42
to what to do A to Zed if they want to take a career break to travel. Um so
56:47
yeah so that's what we're working on and and and at the moment we are actually speaking to a whole bunch of people
56:53
trying to understand their pains and challenges so that we can create that course to the best of our ability. So
56:58
yeah that's what we have been working on. Nice. So yeah, as Navil just said, uh
57:06
the description as always, so you can check uh Tiny Dtor
57:13
on your own. Uh contact them if if you need support about breaking your 9 to5
57:19
job life and uh living somewhere. Uh but of course also subscribe and
57:26
follow their to their YouTube and and social media channels so you stay tuned with their life and their videos. Um
Funny Story & Wrap-up
57:33
before we wrap up, I would say that we normally like to close the episode with a fun unexpected travel story that you
57:41
had during your time abroad. So if you have anything to share, I I would love
57:46
to hear it. Yeah. So the the one that always comes to my mind because it was so funny and
57:52
shocking and interesting at the same time. So like Zanesta and I we were like
57:59
sitting at this coffee shop in Daang one time and Daang like Vietnam in general
58:05
has a lot of motorbikes and sometimes you'll see like four people on one motorbike and you're like wondering how
58:12
do they even balance that thing. So this one day we're sitting in front of this coffee shop like it was an outdoor place
58:19
and we saw this lady come with this um you know uh fridge like not a full
58:25
fridge but not a mini fridge either like it's like somewhere in in the middle. And then this other guy came in with his
58:32
bike and then he put that fridge on top of the bike like the the passenger seat
58:37
and then wrapped it around like with some um uh ropes and then off he went
58:42
like it's no big deal. And that like it was kind of shocking like how how can
58:48
you do something? Isn't that risky? But at the same time it it made us wonder like you know anything is possible like
58:55
like like we sometimes feel like oh we can't do this we can't do that and but
59:00
anything is possible as long as you believe you can make that work. That guy believed he could put that midsized
59:07
fridge on his back and then drive away with like no worries at all. And uh yeah
59:14
it was like the the most like it left like like you know sometimes certain
59:19
things like lives like this print in your brain like I will never but we will never forget this incident. Um so yeah
59:28
like you can you can look at it just as a funny thing or you can take some lessons out of it but yeah it was like
59:34
the most interesting thing we've ever seen through our travels.
59:39
Then thanks a lot for the sharing and the story with a little bit of of let's
59:45
say paraphrase into it motivation tip. Uh it has been a very very good
59:53
pleasure to have you in the show. Give a a big hug to Zanesta and the kit
1:00:00
and I hope that she recovers soon. Um thanks thanks a lot for joining to
1:00:06
everyone listening uh this episode. Uh, go and check out the Tiny Detour in YouTube, but also subscribe to their
1:00:13
channel, subscribe to our channel, rate, share our shows, and I hope you enjoy it. Until then, keep exploring, stay
1:00:20
curious, and see you in the next episode of Expert Experts.