0:00
and I yeah spent a couple years in Europe. Um I I spent the lockdowns in
0:05
Berlin actually and that was a interesting experience. Then I escaped Europe and I went to originally it was
0:13
Brazil. Spent a couple months there. Then I went to Costa Rica, met the love of my life. I kind of inadvertently
0:19
became a nomad in my 30s just by virtue of the fact that I couldn't go back to Australia and I was stuck and like I
0:24
didn't have a route or a place and I lived out of a suitcase. So basically I I lived the the nomad life by necessity,
0:31
not by not by choice necessarily, but I kind of it it grew on me and I enjoyed
0:37
that. And I just aligned my life with the work and travel and conferences and
0:43
everything. And this is the the the terminology that I'm trying to bring into people's conscious now, which is I
0:49
have a base somewhere or maybe I even have two bases. Maybe I have something in Latin America and maybe something in
0:54
Europe or something in Latin America, something in Asia, whatever. And you have this base and it's not a base that
1:01
you leave. It's not a suitcase or a or a storage shed. It's like actually a place. It's a house. And you have the
1:07
flexibility to go and travel and go from one base to the other and do all this sort of stuff. Welcome to Expert Experts. Today's guest
1:14
is Alexander Spetsky. And if you're into startup ideas, building a freedom-driven
1:20
life, and living as a nomad on your own terms, this episode is for you. Alex
1:25
grew up in Australia, but his path quickly went off the conventional track.
1:31
After cloning his way out of a big dep by age 20, he became a relentless
1:36
entrepreneur, founding and scaling companies across industries, including
1:41
his current digital nomad focus project, Satlantis.io. All of this while living, building, and
1:48
thriving across continents as a digital nomad. This episode will explore his
1:53
wild entrepreneur journey, what he's learned from living abroad, and how bushido, stoicism, and self-s
2:00
sovereignity influence everything he does from startups to philosophy. Before
2:06
we start the episode, don't forget to subscribe and activate the notification bell to stay tuned with all the latest
2:12
episodes of the podcast. But now, sit back, relax, and let's explore this
2:17
expert experience together. So, Alex, uh, welcome to Expert Experts. Um,
Guest Background & Expat Journey
2:22
really happy to have you here. Um, yeah, maybe we start from the beginning as as,
2:28
uh, I know you your story a little bit, of course, but, uh, but the guests, the the the listeners uh, might be
2:35
interested in where are you from? U,, where where did you grow up? Uh, where is your background?
2:41
Yeah, I appreciate you having me on, man. I I really it's been uh it's been a while since I've done some podcasting.
2:46
So now getting back in the tour is um is going to be good to answer your question. Where did I come from? So my
2:53
my parents are Macedonian, but I was born in Australia and I lived uh I lived up and down
2:59
Australia. I think in my 20ies I must have moved every 6 months uh into either
3:05
a new apartment or a new part of town or something like that. And I cuz I had this insatiable hunger to kind of see
3:12
all the different parts. And I I lived in Wllingong, I lived in Barl, I lived in western Sydney, uh eastern Sydney,
3:19
Bondi, I lived in the G Coast, I lived in Brisbane, I lived in uh Sunshine
3:25
Coast, I lived in Melbourne, I lived all over the place. Um so I' I've got a I've
3:30
got a thorough knowledge of Australia. And then in 2019, I left Australia. Um
3:36
my timing was impeccable clearly and um and I yeah spent a couple years in
3:43
Europe. Um I I spent the lockdowns in Berlin actually and that was a interesting experience. Then I escaped
3:50
Europe and I went to originally it was Brazil. Spent a couple months there. Then I went to Costa Rica. Met the love
3:57
of my life. Then I went to Mexico for a bit, the US, and then I went back to Costa Rica, and I kind of like eloped
4:05
the relationship somewhat. And then I convinced her to follow me around the world. We
4:11
went from Costa Rica to the US to Colombia. We went around sort of that Central America region for a little bit,
4:18
Salvador, and then we moved to Texas for a little
4:23
bit. We stayed there for eight months and we got married there and after Texas
4:29
we uh we honeymooned in Europe. So we did kind of like a nomad kind of honeymoon.
4:35
It was three or four months and we went to probably like 12 countries something
4:40
like that and we like really did the the European tour and that was a lot of fun and then we settled down in Brazil. So
4:46
that's kind of like our bit of the journey, a bit of bit of where I come from.
4:52
That's a lot of countries. That's for sure. Like, but and I suppose it's a keep counting.
4:58
No, I suppose you're still traveling around. I'm I'm curious what what triggered the first move at the end. No,
5:04
you you were already 20some when you left uh Australia.
5:10
Why why was the the decision? Complete accident. Complete accident. So, I I left Australia originally to go
5:17
on three weeks worth of conferences. So I was in London and uh sorry no I went
5:23
to RIA and then London. So RIA in Latvia. Um and then one thing led to
5:28
another. I got invited to another conference in Palm Springs in um in
5:34
in California. So I went there to to speak at that one and had a lot of fun there. Then I got at the time I was
5:40
running a Bitcoin company. So I got invited to then go on a podcast with um Anthony Pompiano. So he's you know got a
5:47
huge audience all that sort of stuff. So I flew up to New York and I did that with him and he and I hit it off and you
5:53
know he he loved what I was doing with our company and then he wanted to invest. So then I had to hang around there for a little bit longer to
5:58
organize the investment all of this and then I had another friend in Mexico who said look you know instead of waiting in
6:05
the US and spending all your money come and hang out in Mexico for a little bit. So then I went to Mexico, hung out there, went back to the US, closed the
6:11
deal. And at this point, like about three or four months had already passed and I thought, you know what, let me I'm
6:18
already in the northern hemisphere. Let me go check out some other things. So then I went to Europe for a little bit. I went to
6:24
Barcelona and then I went down to the Canary Islands and I spent uh I think I spent New Year's there that time
6:29
actually and that was a lot of fun. And then after that, I went to see some family in Macedonia. And then I got to
6:36
Bali in February of 2020. And I was kind of intending to finally
6:42
like go full circle back to Australia. But for whatever reason, I don't know why, I decided to just go back up to
6:48
Europe one last time. I think it was cuz I had some luggage there or something like that and I wanted to grab that stuff and then come back. And yeah,
6:56
that's when I got, you know, obviously March came around, got locked down, and then I got stuck. So it kind of my
7:03
intention was never to leave longterm but basically that happened and then I I've never been back to Australia. So
7:09
since 2019 it was done. Wow. So you kind of left because of
7:16
conventions, podcast, whatever work related stuff and and never ever come
7:21
went back not even for for visiting. Wow. Wow. Nothing. So all of my all of my clothes,
7:26
my motorbikes, everything like I had to coordinate with my mom, my sister, this person, that person to try and like sell
7:33
stuff and put it in storage and all this. It was it was a disaster. It was hilarious. I mean, of course, like it's it's not
7:39
the easiest trip ever, like going from Australia to Australia is very very unconnected from everything else. So
7:46
it's not that okay I left I leave some things in Barcelona and then I will recover them whenever it uh when I'm
7:52
from Italy you know like it's not the same kind of trip. Um something that triggered my curiosity a lot about your
8:00
life it's that at the end like you you big part of of your your experiences
8:05
also about entrepreneurship and having companies. You you talked already about back in the day you have you had the
8:11
Bitcoin uh uh company but also writing and doing things like it's still a lot
8:18
of the motivation to travel right now related to to work uh um travels or or
8:23
it has switched a little bit the context lately it is um so I would say that throughout
8:31
my life the travel has been well actually let me let me frame it this way in my mid20s I traveled a little bit
8:37
more for travel sake. I don't think I was ever really a nomad in that period. I kind of inadvertently became a nomad
8:44
in my 30s just by virtue of the fact that I couldn't go back to Australia and I was stuck and like I didn't have a
8:49
route or a place and I lived out of a suitcase. So basically I I lived the the
8:54
nomad life by necessity, not by not by choice necessarily. But I kind of it it
9:00
grew on me and I enjoyed that and I just aligned my life with the work and travel
9:07
and conferences and everything. So I tried to like combine it because I'm I'm always I don't know my wife always calls
9:12
me crazy for this but she says like I'm always trying to squeeze everything I can out of every minute, right? I'm the
9:17
kind of guy who's like okay the Uber is coming in 5 minutes. Let me quickly see if I can send a few emails and check my
9:24
calendar and add a few notes and all this stuff like in 5 minutes. and she's like, "What the hell's wrong with you? The Uber's going to be here." I'm like, "Oh, but I have 5 minutes. I can cram it
9:30
in." So, all my life has been like that. It's how do I uh multiply the number of
9:37
things I'm doing in the same uh period? And and look, as with everything in life, it has pros and cons, right? The
9:43
pro is that I'm hyper efficient and I get more things done than anybody I
9:48
know. Uh the downside is my brain doesn't turn off. I'm always working. I'm always doing something. I'm always
9:53
on. Um so, I find it hard to relax. But to come full circle and answer your question, um these days because now we
10:01
have a base and we're a little bit more settled, my wife is pregnant, I'm going to have the baby, doing all of that sort of stuff, I I travel more for uh for
10:12
work necessity than anything else. Or if I'm going to do a book signing or if I'm going to speak at a conference or something like that, I'll travel for
10:18
that specifically. I just when we started this call, I just told you I went
10:23
7 weeks, 30 flights, 20 countries. It was insane. It was a massive tour. So, I
10:29
do it for that now, not so much for the leisure. I see. Well, congratulations on the on
10:35
the baby also. That's a very big step. I I don't know if it will change a lot
10:41
your life. I mean, for sure it will. Babies always change a lot the life of everyone. Uh but um yeah, you you also
10:49
said something interesting and that's also related to the to the fact of creating roots. No, the the fact of
10:54
finding a partner, the fact of having a child, uh establishing a family, but
11:00
even also like the the the idea of having a more established point of base that you consider home. Um when I talk
11:08
with Jordi and other people uh Jordi with with your partner at Atlantis like
11:13
we were discussing also the importance of having some place that you can return. Um do you feel like that and
11:20
right now or 100%. So this is I'm I'm writing an essay on this at the moment actually where I'm going to explore the idea of a
11:27
different like I want to I think the word nomad is um
11:32
it's kind of done like this this idea of just like traveling all the time and being untethered to anything. It's for
11:39
like young 20-year-olds like you come to a certain point in life and I think you
11:44
want to be more location independent. And this is the the the terminology that I'm trying to bring into people's
11:50
conscious now, which is I have a base somewhere or maybe I even have two bases. Maybe I have something in Latin
11:56
America and maybe something in Europe or something in Latin America, something in Asia, whatever. And you have this base
12:02
and it's not a base that you leave. It's not a suitcase or a or a storage shed. It's like actually a place. It's a
12:08
house. And you have the flexibility to go and travel and go from one base to the other and do all this sort of stuff.
12:14
You work remotely. You have that flexibility. You are location independent. But you have the home
12:20
aspect which is you come home, you return, you nest, you get into routine and you do your thing there and then
12:28
couple months whatever you need to go and travel again, do something etc. You just move and you do that. I think for
12:34
me that is the ideal lifestyle now. like it's it's it's actually why I'm
12:39
building the bloody business that I'm building is that I want to understand like where is the best place to live and
12:44
establish a base and then between the base or bases I want to have the
12:49
flexibility to move around and see the world because I still have the desire to see the freaking world. I think we all
12:55
do. Um but I do not want to live like a 20-year-old out of a suitcase. I want to
13:00
have a base, have a home, have somewhere where there's a level of stability and grounding. And trying to like have a bit
13:07
of both, I think, is the optimum life. At least for me, and that's what I'm finding with a lot of people who were previously nomads, this is kind of what
13:14
they're looking for. I think it's also interesting now is transition between what it's being
13:21
nomadic and then settling down somewhere um and setting a base or roots. uh
13:28
related to that actually it's something that I always like to ask the guests who come to the show like what what are the
Biggest Challenges & Surprising Moments
13:36
surprising cultural adjustments that you have find like you lived in a lot of places and
13:41
uh I suppose you need to adapt to everywhere you go a little bit if not
13:47
you don't you don't connect with anyone no what what has been the most challenging ones or the more surprising
13:53
ones adaptation culturally wise that you've had yeah journey. Yeah, I had a lot of um adaptation in
13:59
Europe actually. So when when I lived in Australia, I lived in this beautiful apartment and you know the apartments were large and all this kind of thing
14:05
and I remember laughing um in Australia when they would start building these new apartments and they were like 120 mters
14:12
and we considered that small and then when I like moved to Germany I was in a 45 m apartment. I was like what
14:19
the [ __ ] is going on here? like it was like it blew my mind that it was like that people could live in these shoe
14:24
boxes and it was very hard for me initially to like settle into that. I was like how do people live here? Like doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.
14:31
Um and everything is like so compact in Europe like the everything from the washing machine to the like the the way
14:37
the rooms are laid out and all this sort of stuff. It's very very very compact. So that was a that was a big culture shock for me. I think another one is
14:45
uh and this one I guess going from Australia then to Europe where things
14:51
are still functional at least coming to Latin America and then seeing the dysfunction here you know people being
14:57
late like the the doors not closing properly you know you you close your front door and you pull the handle and
15:04
the handle comes off you're like [ __ ] hell so it's like you know the workmanship and just the this kind of
15:09
culture of uh of it's good enough right like there's no there's no culture of like completion and perfection like you
15:16
get that a lot in the Nordic countries for example like you go to Germany or
15:21
Switzerland or Denmark or Sweden or something like that things work everything is functional but
15:27
also the people are a little bit more square and um you know cold and you know and all that sort of
15:34
stuff so you kind of Exactly. So you got all these sort of trade-offs. So it's like, you know, and having lived in all
15:40
these places, I you know, get these kind of different um adaptations and it's it's been fun. I think it's it it makes
15:46
you it it broadens your um personality and it teaches you to be able to deal
15:53
with multiple different people. And it also teaches you the fact that, you know, all of this stuff that we've been
15:58
taught in, you know, the last hundred years is, oh, you know, we're all equal. Humans are all the same. We all think
16:03
the same. Like I've realized that no we're not actually. You know Germans are very different to Italians. Italians are very different to Australians.
16:09
Australians are very different to Brazilians. Brazilians are very different to Americans. Like we all have these unique traits and it's not
16:15
something that we should be ashamed of or afraid of saying. It's like hey we are fundamentally different people and
16:21
that's actually what brings the color to civilization. the fact that we're all different and and you know kind of
16:29
aligns with one of my larger political fears which is this whole movement towards globalization and making
16:34
everything the same everywhere. I think that's a disaster because then you you know like nobody wants a [ __ ] Starbucks on every corner. Nobody wants
16:41
like every single race and culture and country and creed and everything to be the same. Like then you lose the flavor.
16:47
So anyway, I'm going off on a tangent here, but definitely those couple of
16:53
things were were educational for me. Yeah. I mean you touch a very big point
16:59
and I wanted to ask you at some at some some moment of the interview let's say like this of the of the podcast episode
17:08
what it's for you know this dichotomy that you just said this globalization of the people being able to live everywhere
17:15
a little bit like more nomadic and and being having a base here and beer that's part of the globalization also but
17:22
keeping the cultural traits and the the languages the the the ways of doing
17:27
things, the local shops, etc., etc. No, that's normally very conflicting. I don't know how it is in in Brazil right
17:34
now, but I'm from Barcelona and we have these discussions often. I mean, I I'm
17:39
living abroad since 8 years and um sometimes they bring this whole uh discussion of like the experts, the
17:46
nomads, uh raising the rents on the places, uh changing the the flavors to
17:52
take your words of the cities where they go. um h how do you see the the
17:59
a perfect solution in the sense of keeping culturalities and then uh maintaining this global way of living
18:07
man I don't I don't know what the solution is honestly man it's such a it's such a hard problem um how to to
18:15
deal with that in a way that is doesn't turn into an economic nightmare like
18:21
because what you don't want to do is you don't want to um uh
18:27
kind of like use state controls to you know to impose
18:33
uh on the free market for example right so you don't want to like do that because then you turn the country into a communist [ __ ] hole um and then people
18:40
you know like people don't have property right so there's like there's an economic argument there's an ethical argument there's a cultural argument
18:45
there's all of this stuff and it's all very very messy I
18:52
yeah there's no other way to say it except that I if I had a solution um I would be out
18:57
there doing something about it but I don't have a solution other than you know people need to
19:04
I guess maybe one thing I could say is that
19:09
I would like to see more people
19:15
who are um either expats or traveling or doing all that sort of stuff kind of
19:20
support like the local businesses and the local entrepreneurs and all this kind of thing cuz there there at least
19:26
you you you can give them an advantage. I mean that happens a lot in Florianopoulos where I where I've spent
19:32
a lot of time is that um there's almost everything here is run by
19:37
locals. Um almost everything and you know from the gym to the to the bakery
19:43
to the burger joint to all of it. And I guess it's um
19:50
you know I don't have as much of that problem. Uh Europe I know is a bit of a of a different story because of how you
19:57
know how much of a cultural mishmash it is. Um and you know with the European Union and all that sort of stuff like it it
20:03
gets very complex but anyway I'm not going to go off on any more tangents here but I I don't have a good answer
20:09
for you. I'm sorry. No worries. I just wanted to hear your opinion. I mean of of course if we would
20:16
have solutions for everything we will be trying to apply them. No that's that's like that. Um actually talking about
20:24
supporting local entrepreneurships and and building companies and and having local stores you built quite some
20:30
companies on the road and built a lot of them while traveling as far as far as I understood.
20:36
What's the biggest operational challenges that you faced doing that? How how do you can create companies on
20:43
the go? man, the a lot of people talk about
20:49
remote work and how good it is and all this sort of stuff and and look, remote work does come with a lot of benefits,
20:55
right? Like the fact that you can get your [ __ ] done whenever you want to, that you've got a large talent pool to
21:00
hire from, that you can I mean, time zones are a double-edged sword. You know, sometimes time zones work out um
21:06
because you can kind of keep like the business is always on um but sometimes
21:12
time zones don't work because you want to get everybody synced up um
21:17
which you know is very difficult when you're doing everything remotely and you're on different time zones. But I think for me, if I had to
21:25
say one like primary difficulty, I would say that it is the lack of facetime with
21:31
um with your team. Like we we just did a team offsite in Prague about a month and
21:38
a bit ago and we got more work done in that week
21:44
than we would do in a month, maybe even 6 weeks remotely because we could point
21:49
at [ __ ] we could laugh at each other, we can push each other, we could do all this sort of stuff. Now granted, the the
21:54
the pace at which we worked, I don't think is possible to sustain over the long term. I think would kill ourselves
22:00
cuz we were doing like 9:00 a.m. to 2:00 a.m., right? Like we were basically working 20 hours a day,
22:05
but we were trying to like squeeze all the juice of while we were together. Irrespective,
22:11
that is something I really really miss like having a war room, having like post-it notes on the wall and
22:17
whiteboards and all this sort of stuff and being able to like collaborate in person. that that that
22:22
for me has been the the most challenging thing to come to terms with and to to re
22:29
reestablish or or to to sorry not reestablish is the wrong word come to terms with and to have to readjust to
22:37
as I've been building. Yeah. I mean it makes sense the personal
22:43
contact it's lost a little bit. I I work remote since Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. five six years also. And when you go to
22:50
the offsites, it looks like this personal connection and I don't know,
22:55
you get things discussions that normally would take longer or you need to find a calendar appointment suddenly are
23:01
happening over a coffee or friction. Yeah, exactly. It's friction, friction, friction, friction. So like this, it removes it. I think one one
23:09
commitment we made with the team was we said, "Okay, what we need to do is over the next uh in in the coming years,
23:16
we're going to do two offsites a year." now and we're going to try and like maximize like and and extend the offsets
23:22
cuz this time we only need 7 days. So I think next time we're going to do like 14 days. If we can do 14 days twice a
23:27
year, I think that's going to really increase the the amount of trust, the relationship between the team, the
23:33
productivity, the the sinking of the minds. Because when people always ask me about business, they're like, "Oh, you
23:39
know, what's the hardest what's the biggest challenge in business?" For me, it's making sure that everybody
23:45
is on the same psychological wavelength and they have the same vision inside their heads. That's the hardest thing
23:50
cuz if you're like if you're a single uh oneman show in a business, you don't
23:56
have to explain anything to everyone. You've got it here and it can go from here through your fingers into the
24:02
keyboard, into the code, into whatever, right? Like you can build it, you know, if you're an artisan, if you're an artist, you like you go straight from
24:07
there. But being able to like take the message and try and keep the fidelity high as
24:14
you are explaining it to someone or getting it into someone's heads and all this sort of stuff is very very very challenging. I think people don't
24:20
appreciate that about business. That's the hardest thing about business is and and doing that and trying to coordinate
24:26
a growing team who are on different time zones who you don't have uh you're not with together and all this sort of
24:31
stuff. It increases the complexity and the friction of it. So, it's not easy, but clearly obviously it can be done.
24:38
But that's um I think that's one of the things that not enough people talk about when they think of remote work.
24:46
I mean, having a shared vision in companies, especially
24:52
if it's small companies or startups, etc., etc., makes the difference. I mean, if everyone goes to works into the
24:59
direction of an objective, that changes a lot. That's for sure. um a little bit related to that but
25:06
maybe both on the on the business but also on the personal level um what about
25:12
navigating legal systems visas bureaucracies while working abroad
25:18
because that's another big topic I don't know like having a working visa it's not the same as having a vacation visa it's
25:24
not the same as like I don't know taxation here and there navigating bureaucracy I know ID verifications
25:31
stuff like these which are Man, this is I mean trouble. This is Yeah, this is why I like Bitcoin
25:37
because it's borderless and you know, you don't have to worry about banking and all this other [ __ ] But man, holy crap, dude. Like the the world
25:44
hasn't caught up with the nature of um location independence. Like, you know,
25:50
the the and the bureaucrats specifically haven't caught up. They're they're still living in the 1800s trying to like
25:57
establish like, oh, where does your money come from? And all this stuff. It's such a [ __ ] show. Um, I don't know,
26:02
man. We we we had a lot of trouble both in a personal and a professional capacity. Like I I ultimately ended up
26:08
getting myself set up with a um with a tax residency in a in a low tax
26:13
jurisdiction. I don't want to say where, but like it's in the it's in low tax jurisdiction. And you know, I created the structures necessary
26:20
for me to be uh compliant, but also um
26:26
to be nimble and to be, you know, tax efficient, right? Um, but it took a while, man. It took a
26:33
lot of time, a lot of energy, a lot of effort, a lot of expense, and a lot of money to like kind of do all of that
26:39
setup, which drove me crazy. Um, also my my wife is from Dominican Republic and
26:46
man I having been from Australia I never appreciated like this idea of like
26:53
visa-free travel like cuz as an Australian you know like and you as a European like you just go somewhere you
26:58
get your passport stamped and that's it. But [ __ ] hell, man. Like the amount of times we had to go and like apply for
27:05
visas and beg for entry and all this kind of crap because of her passport really taught me like how lucky some of
27:12
us are to have like a strong passport for example. Um and I you know I wish that stuff was
27:17
easier. Like I I wish for like wouldn't it like I would it not make sense for
27:22
example for someone who wants to travel somewhere just put down a $10,000 bond or something like that in the same way
27:28
as you do with a um with real estate you know you pay a deposit which is your bond so that if you damage the house or
27:35
whatever they just take it out from there right so it's like if you overstay then they just deduct it from that so
27:40
people can leave like there's there's could be such easier ways to do this but
27:45
you know unfortunately everything is stuck in bureaucracy. and paperwork and appointments that you know you got to
27:51
book months in advance and you have to fly to do the thing and you know stupid insurance like all of this kind of crap.
27:56
It's very very inefficient. It's driven me crazy over the last couple of years having to deal with that which is I
28:03
think also part of why we wanted to kind of set a base and kind of settle for a little bit because the amount of crap we
28:09
went through with that it was a nightmare. Yeah,
28:14
this kind of processes and it makes you realize the privilege of being a
28:19
European, Australian, man, white, the whole bundle bag that it comes with
28:26
these kind of things when when you start traveling around with people who doesn't have this capacity and and absolutely um
28:34
good uh I would say looking at the time and then checking a little bit uh before we jump to to a little bit more funny
28:41
mini names to learn a bit more about your your life and your expert experience and nomad experience. Um
28:49
would you what would be the hack the life hack the advice the most powerful
Expat Life Hack & Advice
28:54
tip that you would give to someone who wants to be or build a location
28:59
independent life?
29:08
one life hack. I remember reading this in your description and I was kind of
29:15
thinking of a couple different ones. Um, my one would be to
29:22
have a local friend in the places that you want to go to or or someone friend
29:29
of a friend or something like that, right? Um, and these days there's all sorts of tools where you can find those
29:36
friends and find people who are values aligned. Um, I mean part of why we're building is that so you can find those
29:43
kind of people and you can very quickly see whether your interests and your values align inside the app. But you
29:50
know you could also do that through meetups, through events, through um
29:56
find a telegram group, WhatsApp group or whatever. But having someone local on the ground that you either have a direct
30:02
relationship with or a proxy relationship with changes everything when you're when you're traveling. Like
30:08
if you have to go and figure it out every single time by looking at Google Maps and searching Google and asking chat GPT and all this sort of stuff,
30:15
you're not going to have a good time. Like you can do that. It's a it's a method and sometimes you'll be stuck
30:20
because you know you can't have a friend everywhere. Um but like the the personal touch like having somebody I think
30:29
changes the experience from a from a five to a to a nine.
30:34
Yeah, that's a very good one. Actually, I also recommend getting also because
30:40
these people if you have bureaucratical problem, bureaucratic problems or like I don't know you need to go to the
30:46
hospital whatever normally they know how the system works and they are the ones who are able to lend a hand.
30:53
Hey there everyone. I hope you're enjoying this episode so far. Remember that the best way to stay tuned with the
31:00
latest episodes of the podcast is by clicking on subscribing YouTube and in your favorite audio platform. For extra
31:06
content and information, follow, like, and comment on our social media and visit our website
31:12
expatexpresspodcast.com. Thank you for supporting our podcast and let's continue with the episode. Uh then
Cultural Deep Dive & Fun Comparisons
31:18
I would say we jump to to the next section. I prepared a couple of uh mini games. It's like a I call it mini games
31:24
but at the end it just questions a little bit more rapid fire and a rapid statement. And the first one that I
31:31
prepared for you Alex is uh called nomat nomat pics uh bullish or bearish. Uh I
31:37
played a little bit with the investments. So basically for all listeners who doesn't know exactly what
31:43
a bull or bear is uh I will tell you a sentence and then uh about nomad
31:50
lifestyle or or situations and you can tell me if it's bullish or bearish in the sense of that you are into it or you
31:56
think that it's not something for you or or something that you don't consider a good thing. Mhm.
32:02
Um also of course if you have some explanation or some experience related with it with that uh just feel free to
32:09
share it. Um the first one that I have it's co living hubs in Southeast Asia.
32:17
Oh, in Southeast Asia. Um, I have zero experience there, but I'll I'll say
32:22
bullish in general on co-living hubs because I think um the the experience
32:27
has shifted to people wanting to have connection outside of a hostel, but
32:35
also outside of like a hotel or an Airbnb. So, so I think I'm generally bullish on co- livingiving in general.
32:42
I think Southeast Asia is probably a good place to do it, although I don't have the experience there.
32:47
Nice. Paying rent on uh using Bitcoin.
32:53
Uh totally bullish. That's the best thing you could possibly do. Um obviously you want to hold on to as much
32:58
your Bitcoin as possible. But if you can establish that, you have a mechanism to
33:03
be able to pay rent anywhere in the world and you don't even have to be attached to the banking system. That's a no-brainer.
33:09
Um going to digital nomad conferences as a meeting point.
33:16
Uh I think I think I'm still bullish on that. Um you know I think sometimes the conferences can be overdone and it's
33:22
like the same thing over and over and over and over again. Um although it it it is like look conferences are great
33:28
places to meet people who are like valued. Not like just likeminded I think
33:34
everyone thinks about like-mindedness but I think what's more important is to be like valued and yeah conference is a
33:40
fantastic place for that. Always have always will be. Um, you know, just really quickly on Satlantis,
33:46
we have a whole events section so that you can find all of these conferences. So that way you can find these people.
33:51
So I think inerson events definitely bullish. Buying land instead of buying property.
34:00
H um I think I'm
34:07
still marginally bullish on that. Uh although you just need to be careful with um with
34:14
land and where you're buying it and obviously um you you want to buy it in a
34:19
jurisdiction where the government ain't going to take it from you. Like you don't like imagine buying land in Venezuela in the 1990s.
34:26
That would be really bad right now. So you I think you got to be very careful with that. Um but certainly still
34:33
marginally bullish on that. We talk a little bit about this one, but
34:38
working while constantly in the transit, like on the move all the time. Yeah. I mean, I'm bullish in so far as
34:45
it's very effective. I'm working, moving, working, moving, working, moving. Um although I'm bearish in the
34:53
side of um it's not a good way to relax or travel if that's your goal.
35:00
Um using Telegram for absolutely everything. Uh bearish. [ __ ] that.
35:07
Totally. I needed to put some bearish ones. Sorry.
35:12
Um, government issue digital IDs. Very bearish. Very bearish.
35:20
Yeah, I think that's um that's a that's a disaster waiting to happen.
35:25
And the last one that I have for this mini game, it's living with zero possessions, but a cold wallet.
35:32
Oh, but a cold wallet, like a cold Bitcoin wallet. Um, no. I think I'm actually bearish on that
35:37
because I think um part of what makes life interesting is the the things we
35:43
collect along the way and the and the associations and the relationship we have with stuff. Like I think we are
35:48
designed to create homes and to nest somewhat. Like yes, there's a time in life to have no possessions and just a
35:55
cold wallet, but I don't think at least for me at this stage of life, that's not the not the life I want to live. you
36:01
know, young 20-year-old, 25-year-old, sure. Um, the older you get, I think you want to nest, create a home.
36:09
Nice. Cool. I would say we jump to the second one that I prepared. Um, I call it pack,
36:16
burn, or stack. Um, basically, I did this one with Jordy and I think it was really funny. Um, the digital nomad
36:25
essential list. Let's say like this. And you can tell me if you would like to keep it uh pack it, burn it, or so ditch
36:32
it forever or stack it and get more of it. Uh but it's basically physical
36:38
things that you would grab on your backpack uh when you travel nomad wise. Okay, let's try
36:45
uh travel health insurance. Uh
36:51
o
36:57
uh the younger me would say burn, but the older me says pack. Um I think you should have one. And yeah, it's a good
37:04
idea. Local SIM cards.
37:09
Uh no, burn. [ __ ] that [ __ ] I have so many SIM cards. Um, now I just do eim with
37:17
Bitcoin and it's so much easier. Yeah, makes sense. Noise cancelling
37:22
headphones. Uh, yeah, pack that. I think that's a great idea for sure.
37:28
Cool. Um, backup fiat bank account.
37:34
Um, yeah, definitely want to have one of those. Um, and in fact, let's say stack because that one you want to have a
37:40
bunch of those just in case. I've been debbanked so many times. So having backups, fantastic idea,
37:49
having offline journals like uh paper writing for sure. Um that one I'll say pack
37:56
instead of stack because um you don't want to have too many of those like hard to carry but definitely an offline
38:01
journal for sure. Cool. Paying for visa consultant services.
38:09
Uh [ __ ] No, I I think a good idea to have
38:15
that because um like doing it yourself. Oh my god. Like it's painful. So I'd
38:22
rather just pay someone else to do that stuff for me. Um not consultant, but maybe that's not consultancy. Maybe what
38:27
I'm more talking about is like a service provider, a lawyer to like take care of the job. Is that what you mean by consultant or?
38:32
Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Okay. Yeah, definitely a good idea. Okay. Pack. Cool.
38:38
Uh, food wise, instant noodles, uh, fast food. No, no, no. Burn that [ __ ] [ __ ] that.
38:44
I'd rather fast than eat junk. Cool. That's a good point. Having uh
38:50
credit card points or these kind of loil points that keep you for traveling. Yeah, you definitely want to stack that.
38:56
Now, I'm I've been very crap at that all my life. Um, so now I'm in the process of trying to get a Chase card. So, but
39:02
yeah, if you can do that, that's a no-brainer. And then the last one that I have, it's
39:08
having a minimalist backpack setup. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think that's a
39:13
that's a pack. And I mean, by definition, you shouldn't stack that cuz you want to be minimalist. So,
39:19
one. True. Cool. Um, so the last game that I
39:24
prepared today, it's called Crypto Samurai versus Tourist Trap. So I of course took a little bit of a
39:30
inspiration from from you and then I would uh basically throw different um
39:37
versus one thing versus another and you tell me which one honors a little bit more the freedom the sovereign
39:44
soity and self-discipline that you describe in in crypto samurai. Um, and
39:51
if it aligns with you and or or you you say no, that that makes more sense uh
39:56
for for people. The first one that I have it's having quite decentralized
40:02
communities in the Andes or having a vibrant expert scene in Europe and
40:08
Lisbon for example. Uh so which one aligns more with the pashid of Bitcoin? Okay. Um, yeah. I
40:16
mean, I think the the first one aligns more with um with something like what
40:23
I've described, but although both both have an alignment um for very different reasons. And I
40:29
think ultimately you want a mixture of both. But if we're talking what aligns more with the the nature of uh what I
40:37
wrote in the book than the first one. Yes. backpacking with one bitcoin
40:45
or having first class luxury tours paid in fiat.
40:50
H well obviously the first one is a no-brainer.
40:56
Um paying in lightning or flashy NFT galleries.
41:04
Oh yeah, clearly the first one. Yeah, NFT [ __ ] No interest there.
41:10
I think this one will be difficult now. But living in a tax haven versus contributing to a local struggling
41:17
economy.
41:22
I guess my answer to that one would be um
41:28
more dependent on how much you care about which one you're living in, right?
41:33
Because if like if you're actually living in the tax haven, not so much just for like I wouldn't pick a place to
41:39
live in because of the tax haven or because of how much somewhere is struggling. I would pick the place if I
41:46
love it and the tax haven or you know the contribution would be a bonus. So
41:53
um that one I don't have an answer on because I think there's too many other
41:59
variables to pick from. Cool. The last one that I have is deep
42:05
working in isolation for some months or having weekly routine
42:11
meetings with international teams. H
42:18
well what's more aligned with um the
42:23
the bashidito bitcoin is probably the deep work which I think is um
42:29
lost these days. I think people are not doing much deep work anymore. Everyone's doing surface level shallow busy work.
42:35
Um and it shows in the quality of the stuff in the world today unfortunately.
42:42
Makes sense. Yeah, I think this good question.
42:47
Cool. Um well, Alex, thanks a lot for for the quickfiring. And now I will just
Audience Q&A
42:53
ask some of the questions that I have from the audience. I asked I shared your profile with with some of them and then
42:59
they sent me some questions. Um the first one is from Anhei. Uh
43:06
it's she's asking what's your favorite country for deep work and creative f
43:12
focus. So it links very well with yeah very much. Um
43:18
for deep work um you want to be as secluded as possible. Um so then in
43:25
terms of uh which country I I have done incredible deep work in uh
43:33
the Italian Alps actually in the north of Italy so like the Dolommites region stuff like that.
43:40
Um also in the mountains the mountains in Brazil
43:47
or in like a buddy loi or Patagonia or something like that.
43:52
So I think the the countries can vary. I think it's more the um the terrain. And
43:58
for me like mountains is a much better terrain for deep work than beach or like
44:07
city or any of that sort of stuff because like you know as you know you just get sucked into these things. So if you want to do deep work disconnect and
44:14
I think go find the mountains and be in a much in a in a more cold environment if you want to do deep work. There's
44:20
something about temperature and isolation that can get you into the zone. Yeah, makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I
44:27
think it it is the best environment. I also agree with with the mountains there.
44:32
I have one from Deitra Zet. Uh he's asking, "How do you handle
44:38
friendships, friendships, and dating while constantly moving around?"
44:44
Well, I no longer handle dating obviously married. Um but when when I
44:49
did um when I was traveling now I was in a in a
44:55
when I did my nomad journey it was a very unique period of time in human history which was lockdowns right so like everything was [ __ ] the whole
45:02
world was upside down you know there were you couldn't meet people out in person because everybody was hiding behind a mask or like staying at home
45:08
and stuff like that so during that period I was using the dating apps that's cuz that was the only way um had
45:14
I if I was in a um a nomad travel dating
45:20
sort of situation now. I don't think I'd use the dating apps. I think the dating apps have turned into a [ __ ] show and
45:25
everything is too hard on there now. At least from what I can tell everyone that I speak to. So my my gut feeling is that
45:32
if I was to be dating, I' i'd be trying to find and encounter people like we did
45:38
in the old school days. like go to where the fish are and go to where you are
45:47
more likely to find people with similar values. So if you're like into health and stuff like that, don't go looking
45:52
for dating opportunities at the club. It's probably not going to be the right person. Like maybe go and find like a
45:58
run club or go and go to like the to the sauna to the hot cold plunge or something like that, you know, to to the
46:04
gym or to the health club or something like that. So, so that that would be my advice from a dating perspective. Then
46:11
from a friendships perspective, this one is um this one is more challenging. The the older I get, the more I realized
46:16
that what friendship is really about is two things. It's time together and struggle together like
46:26
cuz like going through a period of struggle with someone like going through an ordeal deepens the bonds very much. Um,
46:35
and we've kind of lost that these days, particularly because everyone is so afraid of struggle, everyone's so afraid
46:40
of pain, everyone's so afraid of like doing the hard things. People don't have that shared bond, that shared journey,
46:45
right? You know, you you see these stories of like people who have been on like this rough journey together like
46:52
and they they sort of know the worst parts of each other. And when they know the worst parts of each other, it like deepens the friendship. So
46:59
to answer the friendship component of the question is like how
47:05
What can you do that is either an adventure or a mission or a or an ordeal
47:12
or something like that which requires both in-person time and requires like
47:19
challenging your character or your soul in a in a particular way um in order to
47:25
deepen some bonds. And that's where you'll actually build friendships, not acquaintances. Cuz people have these days, people think they're [ __ ]
47:31
Facebook friends or their Instagram friends are their friends. It's not a friend, that's an acquaintance. Like a friend is someone who has your back and
47:38
that you have their back and there's some like depth there. So I think we need to we need to find a way
47:46
in life to create the conditions for that to occur. And I think that takes a lot of effort and energy which people
47:52
are not willing to spend unfortunately these days. Nice. You thought about this one?
47:59
I thought about this a lot when I was writing the book. Yeah, makes sense. Okay, the last one that I
48:05
have, it's from Ali Saha H and he is
48:10
asking, "How do you decide if you would need to decide uh where to
48:15
go as a digital nomad? What would be what is your main criteria?" So, my criteria is usually very simple.
48:24
Is there an awesome gym? Can I get like organic food and like meat stuff like
48:30
that so that I can cook? Um, and the kind of like the terrain. Is there
48:37
is there a beach? Like what what am I looking for? Cuz if I'm if I'm looking more to like enjoy, relax, get some
48:43
sunshine, and be social, I'll probably go somewhere like a Florinopoulos or
48:48
something like that or southern Italy or whatever. Um, if I want to do some deep work, I still look for the gym or, you
48:55
know, and that other stuff like access to food, but then I'll change the the terrain as the as the variable. But
49:02
always the constant is gym kind of like health center and then good quality
49:08
food. That's usually the the triangle for me. It's interesting because it's uh
49:14
bringing a routine into uh traveling around which is something that
49:20
I I value a lot like uh things that I do. I mean I moved uh here to Italy 6
49:25
months ago uh before I was in Greece. Before that I was in Germany and the way
49:30
of staying healthy and also in not losing my mind
49:36
was grabbing the hobbies that I had from one country to another and reproducing them and and that works.
49:42
It's also a way of connecting with locals. Exactly. Exactly. It's a good part.
49:48
Nice. Um well thanks a lot uh also for responding to to to the to the uh
49:54
questions of the of the audience and not only my questions. Um
49:59
I would say now it will be your time for the stage to talk a little bit more
Guest Promotion
50:04
about the satlantes and the what are you doing in the company what is the objective that
50:10
you have and a little bit also where the listeners can can follow you how they can find you and and and check what you
50:17
are doing. No worries. I mean, I I guess the best way to do this is like um maybe if
50:22
you've got some questions about the product or what you think we're doing or anything like that, do you have anything that you'd like me to unpack?
50:28
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I saw that this comes and I also already talked with Jordi a little bit about it. Uh I
50:34
think it's it's an interesting product but um maybe that the interesting part that I found there it's that it's trying
50:41
to do similar I would say what nomadly was doing in the sense of like putting
50:46
ratings or having uh an idea of preparing yourself or doing the research before you go to a place
50:54
but you are trying to add some kind of social aspect on top of it as far as uh
50:59
can you can you elaborate a little bit more on how is that Well done. Excellent. Excellent sort of
51:05
initial overview. So I was an early early Nomad List user and I bought the
51:12
lifetime membership as we all do and then I never used it again cuz it sucked. So um I I was always like I
51:20
thought this is a good concept. It's just like poorly executed in the sense that you know Pete Pete doesn't care
51:26
about like you know building a great product. He cares about you know running the numbers right? that's his that's his
51:32
MO and and I don't say that in a bad way to judge him. Like that's his that's his MO and that's what he does and he's good at that. For me, I looked at this sort
51:40
of ingredients. It's like okay, people want to know where to go. People want to get a community. People want to go to these events. Um people also want to
51:48
know on a consistent basis where's the best cafe, the best restaurant, the best gym, the best sauna, the best this, the
51:53
best that. And I thought about But I thought, okay, look,
51:58
we we could combine these elements
52:04
basically into into a super app. Um, you know, something that is part Nomad List,
52:10
part Google Maps, part like Luma or Eventbrite, you know, sort of like an event thing
52:16
and wrap it all into effectively a feed because the more the world progresses, the more social it becomes. At least the
52:23
internet is becoming more social but there's this kind of bifocation which is
52:29
a lot of the internet has become social media and media is the key word where if you look on LinkedIn now on Twitter on
52:35
Instagram on X on Facebook and everything is about clickbait it's about rage bait it's
52:42
about media it's about engagement it's about just getting you stuck on the [ __ ] device and just scrolling right
52:49
and everything is optimized for that And and I don't say that in a way that there's like some grand conspiracy to
52:55
suck you into your phone. It's just how the incentives work. The way the limbic brain, the way the mind works is it
53:01
notices stuff that uh like like media, if you if you ever heard the saying, if
53:08
it bleeds, it leads, right? Media is the thing that has to capture your attention and suck you in. Now, if you create an
53:14
algorithm or if you create a feed where your metric that you're measuring is
53:19
time on screen, then of course the algorithm is going to fundamentally
53:25
serve more of the stuff that keeps you engaged. And the stuff that keeps you engaged is if it bleeds, it leads. So,
53:31
what's happened with all of the we used to have social networks. What's happened is all of the social networks have
53:36
turned into social media. And the more they've turned into social media, the more they've turned into these uh
53:42
engagement traps, basically these content hell holes which suck us in. And
53:48
you know, look, there's some good and there's some bad. You can discover all sorts of cool things, but [ __ ] hell does it suck up our lives. It burns our
53:54
dopamine receptors. It turns us into just consumers. It's no longer about connecting. It's about consuming. And I
54:01
think that starts to become very, very unhealthy. So what I wanted to do was I said okay look can we take basically
54:07
what social networks were 10 years ago which was connection between people like
54:14
that that's what we do in real life we we have our social networks we know who we know and who we know knows someone
54:19
else and we are connected to people can we take that social network that social graph as it's called and apply it
54:26
to something other than just content right so the first differentiator is the social network the Second differentiator
54:34
is the application of the social network or the intelligence of social network to something other than content. So for
54:39
example, if I come to Bologna to visit you, I should be able to open a map or a list
54:46
of places, restaurants, cafes, gyms, all this sort of stuff. And I should see places that are recommended by my social
54:53
circle, particularly by the people who I share interest, values with. Like I
54:58
don't want to like when I open up Google Maps, first of all, when I open up Google Maps, I just have every single place in the world. I don't want to see
55:05
every [ __ ] place in the world. Second, when I look at the reviews or the the scores and all that sort of
55:10
stuff, not only are like half the reviews these days gamed and fake and all that sort of stuff, but ultimately
55:16
even if the reviews are real, I don't know that person. I don't know if they have a similar taste to me, similar like
55:22
I don't know. But if I know you and I'm coming to Bologna, your recommendation is should weigh the place much more than
55:30
somebody else's. So this is where I start to think, okay, can we use the social graph for something beyond just
55:35
content? It's like, can we use it for recommendations? Can we use it for reviews? Can we use it for bookmarking and collections? Can we use it to when
55:44
someone's running an event and shares an event? If it's like one of my friends is attending or one of the people I know or
55:49
even someone that I just I might not be directly connected with. Maybe I'm two or three uh hops away from them but we
55:56
share the same interests. Maybe that event gets recommended in my feed. So this is sort of like the the the idea or
56:03
like in a nutshell of what Santis is. It's the It's the first attempt to use a social graph for discovering people,
56:11
places, and events in like a in like a format that looks and feels familiar
56:18
like Instagram. You have a feed, you have a profile, you have a map, and all that sort of stuff, but in a much more
56:23
healthy way. And the goal of it is to get you to go and do something in real life. To go and meet someone, to go to a
56:29
cool place, restaurant, cafe, gym, whatever event, yoga, whatever you want to do. and to go and attend an event,
56:36
host an event, create an event, whatever, right? Meet up, retreat, whatever. So, that's the whole purpose of this thing,
56:42
to get us off our goddamn devices because these things like they're very useful, but they're becoming cancer. So,
56:50
that's um that's a bit of an overview. It's like if you could take some elements of Nomad List, the the
56:57
social element of Instagram, the the map and curation recommendations element of
57:03
Google and the and the events element of an Eventbrite or Luma and kind of like not take everything from them, but just
57:09
like the the necessary pieces and tie them together and glue them together by your social graph. I think there's a
57:16
there's a huge huge huge huge potential application here that will hopefully change the way people live and travel
57:23
and coordinate and connect and do all of those things which are necessary for human life.
57:28
Cool. It's very nice. I mean I I'm I let I led your talk because as a as a UXI
57:34
designer I also like when when people talk about digital products of course it's it's it's my job at the end. I I
57:42
work uh with it and I really like the the approach or one of the sentences that you say it's very interesting like
57:48
the fact of creating digital products for taking people out of the digital environment and and that's relatively
57:55
difficult to be done right now. Uh but the the reality is that social media
58:00
it's sucking us inside instead of doing the social part that it's what it should be doing. No. Um
58:08
nice uh related to that and and maybe also from from the from the user experience perspective. No, who is your
58:15
target audience? Uh it it is really like the digital nomads. It's the experts. It's the person who travels just for fun
58:22
uh for I don't know for one week into a place or or it's all of them. I I think this is something we're
58:28
discovering as we go. So there's there's people that are interested for different reasons. And I think what's very
58:33
important when you're building a social network is you don't want just a specific category of person cuz if it's
58:38
just the nomads talking to the nomads, we may as well just do a WhatsApp group, right? So you want to you want to cross-pollinate these different um
58:44
people. You want to have the people who are more into like lifestyle design. You want to have nomads. You want to have the expats. You want to have the you
58:52
want to have the Bitcoiners. You want to have the, you know, the the backpackers. We want to have the people doing like
58:58
passport bro and like I've got 10 passports and six residences and taxes and all this sort of stuff. So it's like
59:04
you want to kind of like cross-pollinate all of these people. You know the network state movement is sort of happening now as well with Bellagi and
59:09
everything. So there's like we want to give all of these people something to
59:14
where there's like a value in the tool, but then also give them a a platform to
59:20
actually communicate, build audience, and build connection because a lot of these different groups, they don't
59:26
overlap 100% in their values and their ideas, but they overlap maybe between 10 to 50%. And that's an excellent overlap
59:34
to start creating a social network that cross-pollinates. That to me is very interesting. Um, but to to kind of
59:42
answer it more sharply, I would say in the beginning, I think it's going to be more people who
59:49
are living a kind of like the the upper end of the nomad. So, I wouldn't say the
59:54
backpackers. I would say more like people who are a bit more location independent. They've either nomaded already for a
1:00:00
little while. They might have a base here or there. They definitely, you know, kind of like remote work. they
1:00:05
they they they've already learned what it is that they like and they're looking for the the best picks or the best
1:00:12
things to do and they're looking to deepen their relationships and the connections around the world. They they want to build a network of people that
1:00:19
they that they have a shared interest and values with. Cool.
1:00:26
I'm looking at the time, but I have a couple of questions more. So, I won't take the time that you're here. I read
1:00:33
some of the info that you sent me about the Noster protocol and the fact of like
1:00:38
users owning their own profiles etc etc. Um it picks my attention a little bit
1:00:44
because it's uh probably the opposite of what the what the big socials are doing no um can you explain a little bit more
1:00:51
of what what is this and why it is important for you to have the nostril in there? Yeah, this is such an important piece.
1:00:58
So from the beginning of time with the internet um the idea of having identity
1:01:03
as a protocol was always the dream of the of the internet. We never got there.
1:01:09
Identity has always been a feature inside an application on top of the internet. So if you look at the internet, it's a set of protocols TCP,
1:01:16
IP, HTTPS, SMTP, right? And there's like four layers fundamentally the internet and then applications are built on top.
1:01:22
And an application could be anything from Google to Amazon to your internet banking to Uber to whatever, right?
1:01:27
Everything on the internet is an application built on these four protocols. And then your identity has always been a feature inside
1:01:35
uh the application. So you have an identity with LinkedIn, you have an identity with Facebook, you have an identity with Instagram, with Twitter,
1:01:40
with all this sort of stuff. So that's good and well except when you associate
1:01:46
a bunch of value to that identity. And when we go to social networks, a bunch
1:01:52
of the value is associated to the identity via the connections you make.
1:01:59
So you go and you spend 1 2 3 4 5 years on Instagram or something like that. You build 10 20 30,000 followers. There's
1:02:06
value in those relationships. And then I mean there's three scenarios here.
1:02:13
Scenario number one is you get banned. So you lose all your followers. So there's your asset gone. Scenario number
1:02:18
two is you don't get banned, but let's say the algorithm changes. So, you've built this whole follower list and now
1:02:24
all of a sudden you're invisible. Nobody sees your stuff because for whatever reason the algorithm is not, you know,
1:02:29
serving your stuff. Number three though is you want to take that list and you
1:02:34
want to produce other kind of content, something long form or maybe micro blogging or something else. So, it's like you want to take your Instagram
1:02:39
audience and put them on Substack. You can't. It's not your audience. The audience lives in Instagram. So, you
1:02:45
have to start from zero on Substack. It's very painful. So what Nostra is is
1:02:50
that it is an attempt to add an extra layer to the topography of the web which
1:02:56
is an identity protocol whereby the relationships between every
1:03:02
other identity lives on the protocol not inside the application. So with Satantis, if you go on there and you're
1:03:09
building content, you're finding places, you're curating lists, you're doing all this sort of stuff, and you build 5, 10,
1:03:16
50,000 followers over the next 3, four, five years, and for whatever reason, let's say blows up tomorrow and I don't
1:03:23
know, me and the whole team, an asteroid comes and hits us and we're all dead. Um,
1:03:29
hopefully not. Hopefully not. Knock on wood. That would be a really, really bad asteroid. Also
1:03:35
because you are decentralized and working remote so it needs to be multiple asteroids happening at the same time
1:03:40
which is that would really mean that God doesn't like us. Um
1:03:46
but let's say something happened. The beauty of Satlantis and the beauty of the Nostra network is that sure you
1:03:53
might lose a bunch of the content that Satlantis served and that Satantis was allowing a context layer on, but the
1:03:59
relationships between every single other user, you can take your key, you can pop it into another uh Nostra client and all
1:04:06
of your followers, all of your relationships, all everything is there. Um, that is the most important thing.
1:04:12
It's not so much about like a lot of people frame nost wrong. They're like, "Oh, own your data." It's that's not
1:04:18
entirely true because the data is stored on different relays and you know the relays don't have an obligation to store
1:04:24
your data so the data can disappear but the the cryptographic relationship between all of the accounts that's where
1:04:31
the value is and that's what you get. So ultimately what Nostra kind of looks like is you get the ownership of email.
1:04:39
So you know when people say in the marketing space it's like okay you're renting your audience on socials if you want to own your audience you have to
1:04:45
get their emails. So Nostra is a little bit like that. You have the ownership of email, but you have the distribution of
1:04:51
social and and that's really really really powerful and and I believe that this is going to transform the way the internet
1:04:57
functions. I think it's going to make for a better internet. It's going to make for a more user controlled internet instead of a corporate controlled
1:05:03
internet. And because you know if you own the relationships, you get to pick
1:05:09
which client you want to go to. And it means that you know cuz now like for example Facebook and Instagram can do
1:05:14
whatever the [ __ ] they want because they own your asset which is your follower list.
1:05:19
So you you create these weird incentives. But if you have the incentive where you hold your follower list, it makes the businesses and the
1:05:25
apps and everything more honest because they have to produce something of value for you to keep using the application.
1:05:32
That's a way better world. That's a way better world. So I'm I'm hopeful that over time things
1:05:38
are going to shift here. And this is by no means it's this isn't like a oh it's going to happen overnight and you know
1:05:44
next week everything's this is a 5 10 15 20 year progression but it's it's
1:05:49
literally a re reassertion of the the sovereignty and user control of the web
1:05:57
which is what the hell the web was supposed to be in the first place. That's very cool. I mean I I I hope it
1:06:04
goes this direction also. I mean, it makes a lot of sense that it's I mean, it's it's going to go that
1:06:10
direction if we get in there and we do the work, you know. So, you know, and there's people like me that are
1:06:15
building, there's people like you that are producing content like, you know, for example, you you should take every single one of your episodes, your shorts
1:06:21
and everything like that, and you should just start posting on Atlantis or on any Nostra application, start building that
1:06:26
because then it's your audience. Like, this is how we get this um this uh momentum going.
1:06:32
Yeah, makes sense. Cool. Um just looking at the time and maybe the last question about Satlantis
1:06:39
itself. I mean uh of course where users and listeners can find how they can
1:06:45
register for it but also maybe what is a little bit the stat the current status
1:06:50
of the application where are you right now if you can share anything that it's coming rather soon that you want to
1:06:57
share with the listeners to say hey stay tuned that this is coming rather
1:07:02
even though I don't know until how much you can share of your I can share yeah
1:07:08
yeah good so the The app is now officially in the app store, so you can search for it. If
1:07:13
you're on Apple, I have noticed something that's happening with people's iOS is when you search for Satlantis, it
1:07:18
autocorrects to Atlantis for whatever reason. So, you need to go and say, "No, no, no, I'm not looking for Atlantis.
1:07:24
I'm looking for Atlantis." So, that's at the top. Um, alternatively, I'll give you the link so you can put that in the show notes so people can click for it.
1:07:30
But, search for Satantis on the app store. The app is further ahead than the web app, so it looks much better. You
1:07:36
can post content. You can create an account, post content, select your interests, you can search for places. In
1:07:42
the next 2 weeks, maybe four weeks, we're going to release what I consider is going to be one of our flagship um
1:07:48
features, which is collections. And collections are basically like fancy bookmarks. They will work a little bit
1:07:55
like imagine Pinterest and Spotify had a baby. So you can create cool collections
1:08:02
of like your f like could be for example my favorite gyms uh in Brazil or my
1:08:08
favorite cafes or my favorite this and they're basically like lists like playlists of your favorite places and
1:08:14
you can share those directly. people can follow the list and the most popular collections are going to kind of
1:08:20
like rise up in rank and you can basically if you're a taste maker if you know how to select the best places you
1:08:27
can build out an awesome list and you can share the list which the list comes with its own map so you know like unlike
1:08:34
Google when you have a list and you look at the list on the map you see every
1:08:40
other pin on the map so you don't know what's from your list or what's not from list [ __ ] Google map sucks for that
1:08:46
This will allow you to have a view on the map of just that list and you can you can see like into it you can
1:08:53
actually see the places. It's it's the best way to like curate and create your um your collections. That's why we call
1:08:59
it collections. So that's the feature that I'm most most excited about. And
1:09:04
the social element of it is every single place that you collect that you like
1:09:10
whether it's public or private starts to influence the merchant algorithm. So if
1:09:15
if you have this like cool list set up in Bologna and I come to Bologna and I follow you and our interests are the
1:09:21
same, it will show me this place has been bookmarked by 31 of my friends.
1:09:28
If I see that, that's a signal that hey, you know, this is a place I should go and check out. So that's where we start to wrap the
1:09:33
social graph into the utility of a bookmarking collections feature. So I'm super [ __ ] excited to to release
1:09:39
that. That's going to be, as I said, ready by the end of the month. This is July now when we're recording in the beginning.
1:09:45
So for me, that's big. And then also after that, we're going to have some awesome new events features lined up. So
1:09:52
that way people can run everything from meetups to retreats to dinners to private events and all this sort of
1:09:58
stuff all through the app and be able to share it directly to their audience right in the app. So like they're they're the two
1:10:06
features that I'm that I'm super excited about. So So where can people find it? Sorry.
1:10:11
Santis.io. io they can find the link there um they can yeah easy create an
1:10:17
account do your interests all that sort of stuff it's it's easy and then also I mean for those who are interested if
1:10:22
they think this is a cool application what we're doing is great um I mean we we we're a venture funded company we
1:10:27
raised the seed round last year of 2 million we're planning to raise somewhere between 6 to 8 million next
1:10:32
year um but what we're doing before that is we're going to do a dedicated crowdfund so that people from the retail
1:10:40
market can buy a piece of Slantis from as little as $250 I think it is up to
1:10:46
50,000 and you know people can actually invest in the company um before we go public and before we raise an
1:10:52
institutional round. So for those who find that kind of stuff interesting that's available too. It starts on the
1:10:58
14th people can start to invest in uh in the business if they want to own a piece of this if they think it's got legs uh
1:11:05
for the future. Sounds super interesting. So yeah, for all the audience and listeners, the
1:11:11
links as always are in the description of the episode. Um, Alex, I would say if
1:11:18
you have a a last uh piece of I don't know, a
1:11:24
hilarious or bizarre or funny story to close the episode with about your your experience living abroad. Uh, and with
Funny Story & Wrap-up
1:11:31
that, we will wrap up the the today's episode. I do have a funny story. So when um when
1:11:38
the lockdowns happened, I was uh I was in Germany. I was in Berlin and I was in
1:11:44
this Airbnb which it was in it was on the west side of Berlin and I was playing a little bit
1:11:51
of music and it wasn't that loud, right? Like it was it was kind of like a little
1:11:56
bit loud I guess. And I had this uh date over from Tinder and you know we hooked up and all this sort of stuff and I
1:12:01
walked downstairs and um and there was some cops at the door like at the front of the thing and they asked are you Mr.
1:12:08
Oldenberg or something? I was like who? No. I was like no I don't know what the [ __ ] you're talking about. So you know I
1:12:13
walked this girl out give her a kiss and then as I'm walking back inside I thought wait a minute Oldenberg and I remember that that was the name on um on
1:12:22
the door of the doorbell that in the apartment that I was staying I was like oh [ __ ] what the [ __ ] do the cops want? So, like they they start walking up the
1:12:28
stairs looking for whoever this is. And I caught the elevator up quickly and I ran into my room and then I hear the
1:12:33
door bang bang bang bang. I was like, "What the fuck?" So, I run outside and I'm like, "Hello." And they're like, "You, they said you you said you didn't
1:12:41
know who was." I was like, "I don't know who the [ __ ] it is." I said, "I'm here for an Airbnb." They come in. I thought I'm going to get arrested for like I was
1:12:46
like, "What the hell did I do? What's going on?" And um and I I actually me and the girl
1:12:51
had a little bit of a joint so we we got a little high and I thought somehow someone smelt weed. I was like, "Oh, god
1:12:57
damn it. I'm going to get arrested in Berlin now." And all this kind of crap. Anyway, turns out the cops come for the
1:13:03
music. The neighbor had complained that we had some music on and the music was not loud. Like the guys are like, "Your
1:13:09
music is too loud." I was like, "You mean that music there?" And they looked at the radio and they were like, "Well,
1:13:15
that's not very loud." I was like, "No, it's not." I was like, that wasn't loud. I was like, what's wrong with these people? So, you know, the cops kind of
1:13:22
like said, "Oh, look, we're sorry. No worries." So, the next day, the um the Airbnb host kicks me out of the
1:13:29
apartment. She's like, "You the neighbors complained. They called the cops on you. That um is against the
1:13:35
Airbnb rules, so you have to get out today." I was like, "What the fuck?" And this was the same day that Berlin locked
1:13:42
down with the lockdowns. So, then all the Airbnb shut down and the hotel shut down. So I was like homeless. So I was
1:13:49
like standing outside with my suitcase with my bags and everything like that. I didn't have anywhere to go and the the
1:13:56
person who came to the rescue was not the Tinder date from the last night but another one that I was hooked up with
1:14:02
like a couple days ago and I messaged them. I'm like I just got kicked out of my Airbnb. I said I think I'm going to
1:14:07
fly out of Berlin. And she's like you're not going to be able to find a flight. All the flights shut down and everything like that. So, she's like, "Come stay
1:14:12
with me for a couple days um while this all blows over and then you can figure out where to go." I was like, "You
1:14:18
sure?" And she's like, "Yeah, come." So, I I went there and then this crazy girl decides to go to work the next day and
1:14:25
tell um the the workplace that she wants to go into quarantine or some something
1:14:31
weird happened. So anyway, basically what was supposed to be 2 or 3 days with her, I ended up getting locked down in
1:14:36
quarantine with her in her place for 3 weeks with this girl that I didn't know who turned out to be crazy.
1:14:42
So anyway, that was my funny like lockdown story. Like my my March
1:14:48
experience in 2020 was this like random think I'm getting arrested, homeless,
1:14:54
kicked out of the place, and then locked down in quarantine with some chick that I don't know.
1:15:00
Gosh. Okay, that was a a crazy one,
1:15:05
but Alex, uh, thanks a lot. Uh, it has been a very very powerful and inspiring
1:15:11
conversation. I really love the to have you in the in the show. Uh, we could be talking for for more time. That's for
1:15:17
sure. Um, but yeah, again, thanks uh for joining and thanks for sharing your