0:00
So now I travel uh looking for like-minded people. I always travel with
0:05
my books. I like reading in paper three things at the same time. Being a pilot, finishing my degree,
0:11
launching this startup travel, they travel as tourists and it's a completely different
0:16
experience and because of that I see like this this friction you know between between the two. I know I will settle. I
0:23
know I know I will. My personal interest one is uh discovering circular economies. counter intuitive, but I
0:31
think the best Wi-Fi was in a jungle at Costa Rica.
0:37
Welcome to Expert Experts. In today's episode, we are going to explore what happens when you leave the cockpit for a
0:43
co-working space with Jordi Long Stea. Born in Barcelona, Jordi went from being
0:49
a pilot to a startup founder and for now has navigated through over 50 different
0:54
cities and countless transitions as a digital nom. In this episode, we will be talking with someone who left literally
1:01
the clouds to build a life of freedom. We will discuss entrepreneurship, the challenges of being a digital nomad, and
1:07
a traveling lifestyle. So, sit back, relax, and let's explore this expert
1:13
experience together. So, Jordi, thank you so much for joining
1:18
Expert Experts. It's great to have you here. Um we just met virtually for the
1:23
first time but uh we are both uh originally from I'm close from Barcelona. I don't know exactly where
1:29
are you from but we are both Catalan. So we were we needed to switch a little bit language also. So welcome and thank you
1:35
so much for for joining us. Yeah it's a pleasure Mark. Thank you for having me and it's glad to have a fellow
1:41
Catalan speaking in English and traveling the world. Yeah. Um, so yeah, maybe just uh
1:49
starting from the beginning a little bit for for an snapshot of our listeners. Uh, where are you originally from and
1:54
and what are you calling home now? I know that it's a very tricky question for you, but let's go to the origins
2:02
first, right? So, yeah, my name is Jordi and as my name implies, I'm from Catalonia. I
2:09
was born here in Barcelona, raised nearby and I I started traveling at a
2:16
very young age. I I was 22 and it was like my first solo trip outside of not
2:24
only my hometown but my country with my first job and my first job was an
2:30
airline pilot. So it was like a a tough a tough uh first job uh or first uh
2:38
official job of course before I I was like waiter and I worked at airports while while I was studying but my first
2:45
trip just was like the first step to a nomadic life because when I landed in
2:50
Austria which was my my home for seven years that was just my my base. This is
2:56
where normally I parked my airplane, but I was traveling. I I made this map. I
3:02
think it's like I made like these Google Maps, you know, putting pins on all the cities I was traveling to.
3:08
And I think it was like more than 50 cities all around Europe and North of Africa, East of Russia. And that was
3:16
like my my normal adulthood. So this is my my beginning my my travel travel
3:23
story my first the beginning of my my first trips as as a as an airline pilot.
3:31
Cool. Which which kind of plane were you flying? Like a commercial one or
3:36
Yes. So I was flying I started flying with the CRJ 200 which probably not not
3:43
many people will know this model but it's it's a it's a super small plane. It
3:49
fits 50 people. And I love this plane because it was originally like the the
3:54
plane for for the rock stars. So it was like a normally like a jet, a private
3:59
jet. It was for it was like an 18-seater, but it was such an efficient powerful
4:06
machine that soon airlines started thinking why don't we make it less
4:11
glamorous and add more seats. So that's when many regional airlines started
4:17
buying this this plane and converting them to to a to a passenger seater. And
4:22
I I love that plane. It it flew I think it had like a range of four or five
4:27
hours. So my longest flight was three three hours, but normally we're like two
4:34
two hour flights, which means that I was always in the same or nearly the same time zone. So I didn't suffer from jet
4:40
lag, which is something that I asked uh at my airline when they just recruited me when when I was 22. And then after
4:47
this one, you know, I was flying for Austrian Airlines and they it was it was at the
4:54
at the beginning of the the financial crisis of this of this 2000, right? 2008.
5:00
So because of the crisis, the crisis hit there as well. So they had to merge a couple of airlines and sell some planes
5:07
and try to normalize the fleets. So then it would be easier and cheaper to maintain. So after this plane, luckily I
5:14
didn't lose my job. Many people lost lost their jobs at the time. I I could keep it. I could keep it. But they they
5:22
retrained me into another plane that was a Fauler Fauler 70 and Fauler 100, which probably nobody knows what what what
5:29
does it mean. It was it was not as uh appealing or as sexy as the CRC 200 that
5:35
I flew before, but it it it allowed me to fly the same routes. So, I was flying
5:41
the same. I was flying passengers. And of course, you know, airplanes have like norm normally they have an airplane is
5:48
like a tube like that. But when you're in an airplane, you don't see this curvature that much.
5:54
That's because airplanes have like two two floors. M so the the lower floor which is a little
6:01
bit smaller it's for the cargo for the bags or for the newspapers or cargo and then people stay here on the top that's
6:07
like a normal seater of course then you have the double deckers with with the with two passengers floors
6:13
yeah but this this is the type of plane that that I was flying which is the the most usual plane flown in in regional uh
6:22
airlines and yeah so that that was for passengers cargo but mostly like I was
6:27
lucky again as Well, because I was flying passengers and you know passengers like to sleep at nights. So that means that I could sleep at nights
6:34
as well. So my time schedules either even though there were some days that were like hard, most of them were like
6:41
during daytime. How many years did you work as a pilot? So I was there for seven years. Although
6:49
it's not like seven full years because I I reduced my my my schedules as long as
6:56
I could because you know flying is exhausting and I was just flying 15 days
7:03
a month. So it was like one week on, couple of days off, one week on and then
7:09
15 days off. And that allowed me to as well to go back to Barcelona where I started a new company and you know I was
7:15
doing like many different things and and traveling traveling the world.
7:20
Cool. I I really need to put you in contact with uh with Parimal, which was the I think the first interview of the
7:28
first season of the podcast. Uh he's a colleague of mine and he has an aviation podcast. So maybe I could put you in
7:35
contact also. Definitely happy to talk to to pilots and to airline and to cruise.
7:41
He's a he's a super passionate about planes and and he interviews pilots mainly and talk about plane stuff. So
7:48
I'm pretty sure you would have a great conversation. Happy to expand on that, but not not for you, not for your audience because I
7:54
know that sometimes it might I I leave that to Paral in another episode
8:01
to that. At some point you made a lead. Uh so you were already more or less talking about
8:07
founding first startups, first companies. How what inspired you to to
8:12
transition from flying to go into a co-working space and start funding stuff? Like what was the moment in your
8:19
life that triggered that? You know, it was and we have to go back to to the 2008 2009 those crisis days.
8:29
Think about like where were you? So in in in my case when I was there it was it
8:35
was painful like everybody was talking about like this big recession all sectors of the economy were somehow
8:43
affected some some were more and some were less but I think it was like as an adult the first crisis I really felt
8:51
because I was in charge of my own life so that's when I started thinking about
8:58
doing other things so that's why I joined in the university while I was
9:03
still a pilot. So in my when I was flying somewhere like I was bringing my my book so the the crew would go maybe
9:11
have a a trip around the city and because I've seen the city many times I would stay at the hotel reading and
9:16
studying and I studied uh multimedia that is like uh a university degree that
9:22
combines art and computer science because you know pilots we have to be like very oriented very goals oriented
9:28
KPIs dashboards all that and you tend to forget like your creative side. So I
9:34
wanted to like combine my my two the two the two sections of your brain and
9:39
because of that I I graduated in multimedia and my final degree project
9:44
was uh startup and I launched that the same time I I presented the final degree
9:50
project to to the university. I also was lucky enough to get a seat on a startup
9:58
in equator in Barcelona. So I was doing like three times at the same three
10:03
things at the same time. Being a pilot, finishing my degree, launching this startup and it was like a lot of things
10:10
going on and for two years I was able to maintain these two lives like pilot and
10:17
startup entrepreneur. But then there was this moment that I said all right I need to make a decision. If I'm in a plane I
10:23
need to be thinking about my passengers not about my clients. and if I'm leading
10:29
my startup, I need to be thinking about my clients, not my next flight. Where
10:34
where will it be? So that's when I decided to say, okay, let's let's cut ties. I've been a pilot for seven years.
10:39
It was a great experience, but I need to do more things with my life. I'm I'm more passionate. And that was at the time when and and and this this might
10:48
sound uh contrarian here a little bit. There was a time where entrepreneurship
10:54
was hot, was cool in Spain where there were like many programs. Everybody, it was because it was there was the crisis
11:00
and the government couldn't pay all the subsidies or all or take care of all the
11:07
all its citizens. So the only way they had to get rid of us as citizens was
11:12
like, "No, you can do it. You can be an entrepreneur yourself. Why don't you do it?" So I got caught in that wave and
11:19
and and and that's that's why I I decided to start my own my own company and and and did that and and and I I I
11:26
was like this as startup entrepreneur for seven years when I had to shut down
11:32
my my company because after seven years we couldn't keep up with the uh pay pay
11:40
for the development with with our clients and at that time I said all right I need I need a So I I rested as a
11:48
I became I became a consultant because I knew so much about
11:54
startups that I consulted for others and I rested I rested because when I was
11:59
this this startup entrepreneur I was traveling a lot that traveling is always
12:04
part of my of my life. I notice patterns of uh seven seven7 and then uh and
12:11
and traveling and there is I I have to dig deeper into that and maybe you you know about it but
12:18
there is something with with the number seven it's something psychological you know like there is this number of the
12:23
10,000 hours when you when you do something for 10,000 hours you become an expert there is something with the seven
12:29
it's like brains are wired this way I I need to dig deeper into that as Sure.
12:36
When so you in in both lives, so seven years plus seven years, 14 years of
12:43
either traveling because it was your job, so you were a pilot or either traveling because your startup brought
12:49
to you to travel. No, at the end it was also your job. So I like to paint it in different ways.
12:55
It's like at the beginning somebody picked my destinations and on the second phase of my life
13:02
I was able to pick them because I was deciding where I would go to find my next customer or my next potential
13:08
partner and now I'm in in the third phase of my life where I do not because
13:15
when I was a pilot I had like this benefit that not many people can have is
13:20
that I was traveling to the same cities many times a month. So to me it was like a scouting process. I was able to study
13:27
the cities to know which city I like the most. And I didn't do that by reading Wikipedia, Lonely Planet articles or
13:34
whatever. No, it was like I was there every week. So so I could I could spot I could spot things. But but
13:39
again, nobody can do that. It's too it's too expensive to to discover places by just going to every everywhere. And so
13:45
but but somebody picked for me picked the destination for me. Then on the second one, I was able to pick based on on my my business interest. But now on
13:52
the third phase of my life where I like to categorize myself where am I now is that now I don't pick based on my
13:59
business interest but based on my personal interests. So now I travel uh
14:06
looking for like-minded people. So I I go to places to where I know there is
14:12
people like me. So I don't I don't travel I don't know to visit some
14:18
local landmarks or museums or the typical touristic activities that
14:25
tourists do. So those are like the three types I think that maybe somebody in the
14:30
audience can can think of themselves. You don't have to be a pilot to to travel to to somewhere that your company
14:36
tells you. You can be any type of commercial business developer. They tell you to go there. And then the second
14:41
one, if you're an entrepreneur and you pick one sector, then probably you'll find destinations based on on that
14:47
business interest. But the one that I'm enjoying, and I'm not saying that they
14:52
didn't like them, they led me to the path where I'm now that now wherever I see people maybe I see I found online
14:59
communities or I found local communities that talk about the topics that I like, I just get into there and if I make some
15:06
online friends, then I can go and and meet them in person. This is to me like the the stage the stage of of my life
15:12
where am I at the moment. So you are fully a digital nomad right
15:18
now like you work from wherever it you like let's say like this do you have a
15:24
country or city where you consider your base like uh you're fully independent location
15:30
independent let's say yeah and exactly the more I I just came back now from a trip from Tarifa
15:37
at south Spain like it's at the very at the edge of of Spain And I I was having
15:45
like this these conversations with many digital nomads and I starting to see to see a trend. So now my interest is
15:50
digital nomadism. So that's why I go to all these type of places and I like to confront my points of view with them and
15:56
I see that there is this question that you just made me. What is your base? I
16:02
start to see that people don't like to have one base. They like to have three or four bases around the globe. So but
16:11
they want to keep them. So for me at the moment my base is Barcelona but I'm
16:16
scouting many places because there are some uh months of the year that I I
16:23
don't like Barcelona. So that's what I'm trying to say is that
16:28
now now I have one place I call my home but I'm open to discovering other new
16:34
places. So that's why I like listening to your podcast to listen to stories of other travelers that you bring here. So
16:40
this is like the beginning like the seed you're planting the seed to okay this this city is interesting or this place
16:46
is interesting. Okay I can reach out to them and and and go and explore.
16:52
Cool. It's very nice. Let's maybe the last question for the for a little bit of your journey story
16:59
like you've been a digital nomad for quite some time now. Uh did you ever
17:05
think of going back of or thought about going back to a more settled life? in the sense of like okay until here so
17:13
doing undoing what you did until now. Yeah. And I think it's part of the
17:18
process. I think that nomads and and I go back to the to the historical or the
17:24
prehistorical uh definition of of nomad like we were nomads because we were not
17:29
happy with what we had at the time. What what I trying I'm trying to say is like
17:35
if the land I'm staying here doesn't offer me food or shelter then I have to
17:40
pack my things and move on and a couple of of of of kilometers until I found a
17:46
place that that gives me that that shelter. But then we started we learned how to agriculture and how to grow our
17:54
own or or or keep our own our own food. So that's when we decided to to settle
18:00
down. So I'm using this parallelism to do it right now. This is the same. I'm traveling all over the place because I'm
18:07
not happy with what the place I'm staying now offers me. But I know that there will be one moment that I will
18:13
find a final destination and I will settle. And this I think this is like the part the part of the of the journey.
18:21
We cannot we cannot be traveling forever. the the the nomads I'm I'm
18:27
talking to the average average average uh age is like 40. So nomads are are
18:34
quite old and it's it's exhausting. So you don't have the same energy when you're 20 than when you're 40 and maybe
18:41
you want to settle but imagine being a nomad with 60 and and there is this this group of nomads that are like senior
18:47
nomads but it's it's a different type of of travel you know it's like more slow slow nomading. So yes, it's it's part I
18:55
know I will settle. I know I know I will at some point at some point. Yeah,
19:01
at some point life also might force you to settle like it's impossible like when
19:06
you're 80. Yeah, exactly. And now for me it's easy because you know I live alone. I don't
19:11
have any wife or kids. I have to take responsibility. But and and I know I know I know nomads that that they travel with with their
19:18
families. But it's more complicated. M it of course suppose another challenge
19:25
on top of everything. Um so actually talking about challenges like u you you
19:33
already said it no a little bit like you came from a very structured job like aviation
19:38
uh which is actually even more structured than any other normal office job I suppose to remote working with
19:47
constant changes of place with constant changes of surroundings and people also so this al sounds very nice but it must
19:56
come also with challenges like what what are the biggest things that you encountered or what are the things that you suffer the most with this?
20:02
Yeah, I think the biggest one is fear. Fear of the unknown because when you're a kid, you don't
20:08
fear anything because everything is unknown to you. So you are living in in content constant change. So change is
20:15
nice. It's normal. It's part of your life. But once you settle and then you start having like these routines during
20:23
during the day now going to a new country this is this this is so so
20:30
fearful. So I remember when I first got my my job in Austria my first job was in
20:36
Austria. I'm Spanish and you know we barely speak English and now I have to go to a country I'm 22 and now I have to
20:42
go to a country where they speak German which I knew at the time I knew like I drive because I worked at the at the at
20:49
the airport and there was like a German route that I had to say like gate one gate two or gate three. So that's that's
20:56
all I all I learned. So that that was so I remember it. It was scary. But once
21:02
you get out of your comfort zone, getting out of your comfort zone is your
21:08
comfort zone. Does it make sense? I'm making myself clear. So to me it's like
21:15
once you get back to the type of life that you were born with which was
21:21
constant change then your body gets used to to change and it it just small leap
21:28
of faith you know it's like you just need some push in my case my push was
21:34
easy because it was my dream job I wanted to to do this so if anybody's
21:40
hearing me so Maybe it will be easier for them to make these difficult changes
21:47
in their life if there is if they're following something that that grows from
21:53
motivation, interest, passion, goal, call it as you want it. You know, I I
21:59
talked to many people, they everybody has like different words to refer to the same thing. So to me once
22:05
that that was the most the most scary thing and now even today when when I got
22:12
invited when I got invited to okay can can you be like for example a couple of years ago yeah at the end of 2023 I
22:19
think I was invited to go to to Korea South Korea for the first time and I
22:25
know Asian culture I like it but I've never been there so it was scary and at
22:31
the beginning I said I don't Oh, but okay, I took a leap of faith and I stood
22:36
there for I think it was 4 months and it's an experience that you have to force yourself to do and maybe you will
22:43
like it or maybe you won't. But until you do it, you are not able to understand if
22:49
if it's for you or not. If it's yeah, if you like it or if you don't. So that to me like that the most
22:55
scariest thing it's fear fear of of the unknown. What about the social side of it? Like
23:02
because I mean if you're an extrovert person, okay, more or less you can handle. No,
23:08
but if you're an introvert person, how do you meet people when you're constantly moving? How do you connect
23:14
with Yeah. And anyone? Yeah. Yeah. And and this is complicated
23:20
and I'm let me go back to my example in Korea. The Korean society is so respectful that
23:28
they will never make eye eye contact with you in the street if they don't know you. So they always wear like these
23:35
hats but the the hat looks like that you know so that they they put it down like this. So you can you cannot see my eyes.
23:42
So you are living in a city where there is human beings walking around but you do
23:49
not see the full extension of the human beings because you're not seeing the eyes and you know
23:55
the eye is the how do they call it like the door to the to the soul. Yeah to the soul.
24:01
So if you're walking so it's like it's a you're living in an in a video game with
24:06
NPCs or or with with robots. So for me um going to places um is is what I said
24:15
before now I go to places based on on the type of people I want to to meet. So first before going to any place
24:23
if if you're an introvert I'm a I I consider myself an extroverted introvert meaning that I do my effort to connect
24:31
to people but it's hard for me again fear of the of the unknown. This is something new. So the easiest way for me
24:39
is to tap into existing communities before going there. And this could be as
24:45
simple as being on a Facebook group or a Telegram group or
24:52
meetups. Join meetups. So simple like that. And then once you
24:57
are there, it's like ah okay, we have this conversation or this topic or the other. And luckily in Korea, I was
25:03
welcomed by a local group of like-minded people. And it was easier for me to to
25:11
start a a connection. You were asking about the connections, right? Like the exact word
25:17
I think was connection. No. Yeah. I mean, at the end, do do you end
25:22
having a circle of majority of them digital nomads around you?
25:27
Yeah. And this is this is one of the things that I don't like about nomading. It's that maybe you go to a place, you
25:35
create a good relationship with somebody, one person, two people, more
25:41
doesn't matter, a group, but you know, it's temporary. And the positive thing is that we live
25:49
full the fullest. So we live more like like tomorrow I'm not going to see
25:55
you again. So if I have the chance, I'll ask you, why don't we go have dinner
26:00
tonight? Rather than if you're staying in the same city, it's like, yeah, we'll see each other on on the weekend.
26:05
No, let's let's meet tonight because maybe tomorrow I have an opportunity. Yeah. To leave.
26:11
So this is one of the it like it looks like a more accelerated type of of life. And that's what I said before that when
26:17
you're younger, you have more energy to to do this. But the yeah, the moment you get you're getting older,
26:23
you you're slowing down. So the good thing is that you it's it's easier or
26:29
you get to know people faster but the bad thing is that if you make good ties with people
26:36
then you don't see them most earlier. Yeah. Right. So that that's that's the negative part. And and to to answer your
26:44
your continuation of this question, sometimes um these people travel to the same
26:49
places. So maybe you keep see them seeing them. And that's what happened to me like for the last couple of months. I
26:57
think I've been traveling to places that I'm seeing the same people over and over. So let's
27:03
Are you choosing these places because you know that the other people is also going there? Yes. So we actually go to like these type of retreats or
27:12
packages with activities spec specifically for nomads. So like this is one of my communities, right? Right.
27:18
Like the the nomad nomad community. So there are like a couple of big brands
27:24
organizing this type of events because they know that um these people want to
27:30
to keep seeing each other each other. Yeah. even though in different parts of the world and and discover new new cultures in in the
27:37
process and new places. So yeah, this is like a good thing. That's that's what I say. If you go to
27:42
places based on the interests, you it will be easier to for you to find your tribe. I call them your tribe. You know,
27:48
it could be your community. Words are are different for us, but you
27:53
know what I mean. Do you miss connecting a bit with the local people sometimes? like
28:00
yeah this is this is something I see a lot for example now I'm Spanish I was in
28:07
Tarifa Spanish town and it was full of Germans and I made I met a good very
28:14
very good group of Germans and I was all the time with the Germans and you know I
28:19
was like their interpreter everywhere where we went so I I I could speak to
28:24
them and to and to the locals and I could see like the cultural barrier
28:30
And there is one thing I don't like about nomading is that we live in our own bubble and we do not connect. We do
28:38
not mingle with the locals. And that's why if you ask any local merchant, even
28:44
though the nomads come with a lot of money to spend, they don't like nomads. It's it doesn't to me like an oxymoron
28:50
is like you're here because of them, but you don't like them. And this is because nomads have their own bubble
28:59
and they do everything like like they are used to. And because it's so
29:06
different than what locals do, they don't spend neither of them spend
29:11
enough time to get to understand to each other. And this is something I'm trying to change because the the culture I like
29:19
is not my culture. It's the culture I'm building. And it's it's like it take I'm taking like the best parts of all the
29:26
cultures I'm discovering, you know, I'm picking I'm picking I'm picking and putting them into one box and and like
29:32
in this box this is my the culture I belong to. To me, this is easier because
29:37
I'm used to travel. But locals, locals, they are mostly not used to
29:42
travel. And when they travel, they travel as tourists. And it's a completely different
29:48
experience. And because of that, I see like this this friction, you know, between between the two walls. And
29:54
that's why if you walk by any major street of Barcelona in summer, you'll
30:01
see locals hating with the with the water pistols.
30:06
The water pistol saying and at the end it's the model of of cities of with tourism. It's also like
30:13
not not ideal at all. No, like Exactly. But but this is the model of city that we've built. And if we don't
30:19
like this model, we shouldn't fight the people we are inviting because a tourist
30:24
tourist a nomad is coming to the city because the city allows it. You know, if you don't want nomads, just put a ask a
30:32
visa. You know, ask for a specific visa on the passport. But if the passport allows you to go in, we locals shouldn't
30:39
be fighting with the nomads. We should we local should be fighting with our
30:45
governance with with our public officials to tell them that we don't want that. So they should find a work
30:53
around to to f to to fix it. The problem here is like in most most governments in
30:58
most in most regions uh politicians make make you play with live in another bubble.
31:05
Look, I like that. I like that they they created their own bubble. Hey, don't touch me. Yeah, exactly. It's it's
31:13
literally the same at the end. No, it's just like okay, ignoring also the reality of their citizens because it's
31:18
it's what it is like that's it. So that that's why that's what I don't like that's what I don't like of of this
31:25
type of of relationship because it's like a lovehate relationship between locals and nomads. But that's why I'm
31:32
going to these communities. One of the one of the most interesting topics I
31:37
have now and what I said that now I'm traveling because of what my personal interest one is uh discovering circular
31:44
economies. So I go to places where you foster local economies. So if you're a
31:49
foreigner and you go there you have to go to the local market and buy the local produce. And by doing that it's not
31:57
about the money. Okay? It's not about you spending the money there. The money is like a the reward. It's the end of the of the of the exercise. But by doing
32:05
that, you have to talk to the local people and by doing that either the local people have to learn couple of words in your
32:12
language to to allow commerce to happen or you have to learn the local words. So
32:20
by doing this like finding this local and circular economies, I'm finding like
32:25
this type of stripe that I'm I'm very interested into meeting now.
32:30
Yeah. making a little bit extending a little bit the network work also to have uh people who maybe more based on a
32:37
single place. It's also interesting at the end. No. Um
32:42
actually I wanted to ask you about the the conflict between experts and nomads and local communities and the whole
32:48
legislation but we already touched that a little bit and watching at the time I would I I have like three or four
32:54
questions more. Uh what's the main difference in your opinion between a digital nomad and an
33:01
expert? These terms these terms are there. No. So of course and and maybe now if you look
33:07
at the dictionary will be will be different but you know we made the words. So for me a digital nomad is
33:14
digital is just an adjective that you add to the word nomad. Nomat. Yeah. So let's let's remove the digital
33:21
because digital means that it's online and internet. It's easy to understand. But the nomad is the the person I said
33:27
before. This person that is not happy with what he has where he is at the moment and he's jumping from one
33:33
destination to the other to find places that offer what he's not happy with. So this is a nomad. A person that jumps
33:41
from one place to another. Will it jump every week, every month, every six months, every five years? It's relative.
33:46
Time is relative. Maybe it takes you uh one year to understand that you're not happy in a place. and maybe takes me
33:53
double because I'm slower or because I have other things in my head, you know, time is relative. So, it doesn't matter.
33:59
And the expert, which is like an abbreviation of expatriot, so somebody
34:04
that is from another place, to me, he's not jumping. It's somebody that comes
34:10
from another place and he decided, and that's what I said before, to find his
34:16
final destination. So, an expert could be a retired nomad.
34:25
It's a person that already discovered his place, but it's not his hometown.
34:30
That's why he's from the ex exterior. That's like an expatriot. So, maybe you're expert after after your
34:38
first trip. Imagine you are from Barcelona. Then you you go to Greece,
34:43
okay? one trip only one trip in your life and you decide to settle in Greece.
34:48
You are an expert directly because you have only done this trip but you were a digital nomad as well for one trip. So
34:55
you started there and once you decided that was your the final destination it's like okay I'm an expert but now if you
35:01
after Greece you go to Bolognia or now now you're going back to to being a
35:06
nomad and maybe one day you say all right Bolognia is my final destination
35:11
I'm an expert again and it's weird it's weird because at the end I'm in between these things no you I
35:17
never moved to another country thinking oh this this is just temporary or it or
35:23
yes but in the sense of like neither searching for a perfect place to live. It was just life. No, I moved to Germany
35:29
because of work. I met someone in Germany who was an archaeologist and then logically we we went to Greece and
35:36
then it just like it's circumstances of life that bring me into that. I never considered myself an omat in the sense
35:42
of like I willingly push for this change. No. And I agree completely.
35:48
I agree with your definition because I applied to myself when I first decided to leave Spain for Austria. I wasn't
35:55
thinking, oh, I'm a nomad, the nomad life. No, life pushed me there. I found a job, my dream job there. So, I went
36:01
there. But in retrospect, now I can see that. That's that's why now I can tell that I'm a nomad or I had been a nomad
36:07
for many many years because I'm looking in retrospect. And there is there is this other category of people that are
36:13
more location
36:19
conscious and they when they travel they know they are nomads but but it's like I think
36:25
that the mass vast majority like your story and my story we were nomads even
36:31
though we didn't know we were nomads. Okay, then I have two more challenges
36:39
questions. One probably you've been asked like 3,000 times times about this.
36:45
I actually needed to to choose a little bit what to ask because of course language visas whatever. So I would
36:52
definitely go for the because the languages you already talk a little bit about it. Uh what about the visa
36:57
situation? Like how how do you deal with getting uh to travel to places where you
37:02
require a visa at the end? So luckily every time I needed to go to a place it
37:09
was so easy. I didn't have any ever ever I have got an issue. Why? Maybe I maybe
37:14
I'm not go I'm not going to these distant far away difficult places to land. So and and when I was a pilot to
37:22
me it was easy you know just by showing my license and my job it's like I I got
37:27
access to any any place so easy it's the best passport to have now
37:34
and you know now I have like these strong passport you know like there are like two types of passports no the strong ones and the ones that will
37:40
become strong so now the strong ones are American European so North American or
37:47
European and and now I'm talking to a lot people that is starting to to think about getting his second passport from a
37:55
country that will be strong in the future. Meaning Paraguay, Ura,
38:00
Argentina, those countries that now nobody wants to go there because they suffer so much from socialism and
38:07
communism and all these things. But you know the west world is is going into
38:13
that direction. So there will be one day and maybe it's not in our lifetime but
38:18
our passports won't open us as many doors as they used to.
38:24
Last question that I have before we jump to to a little bit of life hack or advice from your side. Um and maybe it
38:32
opens Pandora's box because it's a complex topic but let's do it. Um what
38:37
about taxes? Oh yeah. How do you deal with uh because I of course I know myself 183 days uh
38:45
being a resident in a country as your base of taxation. How does it works for a nomad?
38:52
So first of all the word tax in English it's a um an easy word to to say. It's
39:00
not it doesn't transmit the the negative connotations it have in in Spanish. So
39:07
the direct translation from tax if if we would translate it from Spanish to to English it would be imposed. So it means
39:14
like somebody is imposing you is forcing you to pay something.
39:20
Either you like it or not like it's it's something that is
39:25
imposed by who? By by the force. What's a force like police from every
39:30
government? So when we decide to live in a country uh we agree to the laws and
39:36
regul regulations of this country and how do you um how do you abide these
39:43
laws? Well following the rules of conduct and paying this
39:50
I don't like to use the word pay because we are not paying they are extracting it from us. It's like because when you pay
39:57
for something, you choose. You have the option, the option to choose. Am I going to buy an apple from this fruit store or
40:04
from this other store? I I can choose where to go. So for me being a nomad, what I see and now thanks to
40:10
globalization and easiness of travel uh anywhere of the world. I'm seeing taxes
40:16
as a choice. Locals don't have a choice or or that's
40:22
what they think of. It's like no, I live in Spain. I have to pay my taxes in Spain. But now we have a choice. You
40:27
were talking about you were saying about this 183 days. So there are like actually there is like three levels,
40:34
three things that you must comply to to know where you have to get your taxes
40:41
extracted from you which is first of all it's the 183 days. If you live more than 100 which is one half a year and plus
40:48
one day in one town or in one country you are a tax resident of that country. But that's not the only thing that we
40:54
have to consider. Then there is a a second thing that you have to consider. Where is your uh primary where does your
41:01
primary source of income come from? Because if I'm if I'm a nomad and I'm traveling all over the world and because
41:07
I'm not more than six months in in in one place, but I have a business, I
41:12
don't know, maybe an online store and all my clients are from Spain. Even though I'm not in Spain because I'm
41:18
traveling the world because of this second layer, this second definition, I'm saying all this, please audience
41:25
understand that I'm not I'm no tax advisor. This is just for entertaining purposes.
41:30
Exactly. But make sure that you consult this because every country is different. So the second reason is the the what is
41:37
your main country of activity. Mhm. But then there is a a third layer and this is the one that it's so complicated
41:43
to to to not comply because the second one is like okay if you have an online store
41:49
and you're selling to Spain then you can start making some marketing in other countries and then you can say okay my
41:54
work is global I can make money from other places I'm not Spanish tax resident I'm not obliged to pay my taxes
42:00
here but then there is the third layer which is where is your family center of activities so if you're married if you
42:07
have a kid if If you are divorced but but your wife or your husband lives in
42:14
Spain then your center your center or your family center is in in that city or in in that country sorry so it's like
42:20
based on all these things um every time every time I travel and when I was a pilot for example I was traveling I I
42:27
was more than I was everywhere all the time so I didn't have like like this at home but
42:34
because my base my airline was offering the main business or main main job from
42:39
from Austria. At the time, I pay taxes in in Austria. Now that I live in in
42:45
Spain or my base of operations is is in in Spain, even though I travel a lot, I am paying my taxes here in Spain. But
42:52
again, taxes is just I want to transfer this to to the audience. You are not forced to pay taxes where you are. You
43:00
can choose to where do you want to to pay taxes based on these three layers that I explained.
43:07
So if you want to live more than six months in in Italy, then
43:14
taxes in Italy is like a choice. Exactly. So that's why there is like this group of people, they're called the the the flag theorists that that they
43:22
pick where to go based on which country treats them better. What does treat
43:27
better? One people could say I feel safer on the street. Others could say I pay less taxes or the because less more
43:34
those numbers are relative. It's like the number of services this government offers me um is to me ital to what I'm
43:43
paying tax what I'm paying and and this is so s so simple because it's so easy to know because the rules are very clear
43:49
on how much you have to pay. So it if you have a place a database of
43:55
information of all the countries of the world which is there is and and and you
44:00
can see what do you need in a country do you need quality of life do you need safety do you need business friendliness
44:06
do you need good schools family friendly based on that and then you you compare it to the taxes then for you it's like
44:13
all right so let me organize my my country so this is my imagine that the best country for you is uh Dubai
44:20
mh Yeah, but then but it's too hot there. Okay. Okay, then you can adjust. Okay, let's go to
44:26
adjust to whatever it offers that country to you and whatever. So, it's not only about the taxes itself. It's
44:31
about the what you get out of this taxes at the end. No, exactly. So, that's what I want to to convey. It's like
44:37
taxes we were thought that no, I lived here, I went to the school here, I used the roads here. No, but we we are
44:43
adults. We live in a free world most of us. So your passport is a door opener to
44:49
to pay taxes wherever you want. Okay. Looking at the time a bit, uh I
44:55
would say we go to the expert nomad life hack advice.
45:02
Do you have any any that gold uh tip that you would say to anyone listening
45:08
who is thinking into taking a leap on digital nomadism or nomadism in general? So to me and I'm maybe I'm repeating
45:14
myself it's if you are considering being a nomad don't do it for being a nomad
45:22
but do it because there is something inside of you that is pushing you. So if
45:28
if you have a an interest in a specific topic that it's very popular in this
45:34
country wherever whichever country then go and have this experience but don't
45:39
travel for traveling because maybe maybe this is not what you're looking for
45:45
because people get this is like a vacation. I you go you go into a vacation you go in tourist mode you take
45:51
a lot of pictures and then you end at the end of the day at the hotel or the Airbnb exhausted saying wa what an exhausting day. What? Why exhausting? It
45:58
was a vacation you should be enjoying. So go to places. If you are considering being a nomad, don't do it because of I
46:05
want to be a nomad. But do it because you are following your your heart. You're following your interest. And if
46:12
your interest happens to be on the other side of the world, we live in a time
46:17
that we can do that. A 100 years ago, planes were not invented. Nobody could fly as easily. You could you have to get
46:24
into into a boat and maybe you die and maybe the boat sinks. So it's like the risk were higher.
46:30
The risk the risk were higher. Yeah. Cool. With the sentence of catastrophism
46:38
and boats shipping. But no no totally agree uh with that one.
46:45
I would say that we switch a little bit the thing in the gears uh and we jump to the cultural deep dive and find
46:52
comparisons. I prepared a couple of quickfire games. I call it mini games, but at the end it just
46:58
a little bit of a sneak peek into your life on the road and trying to get information on how you live. Hey there
47:05
everyone. I hope you're enjoying this episode so far. Remember that the best way to stay tuned with the latest
47:12
episodes of the podcast is by clicking on subscribing YouTube and in your favorite audio platform. For extra
47:18
content and information, follow, like, and comment on our social media, and visit our website,
47:23
expatexpressodcast.com. Thank you for supporting our podcast. And let's continue with the episode. Uh,
47:29
the first one that I created today, it's called Wiffy Wars, uh, Wi-Fi Wars. I
47:35
said very Spanish, that one. Uh, Wi-Fi Wars, uh, Nomat Edition. I I will throw
47:42
you a scenario and you tell me from where you lived so far or you've been so
47:47
far uh where is the best version of it. Okay,
47:52
let's start with an easy one. Best Wi-Fi. Best Wi-Fi. Okay, and this will be will
47:58
be sound counterintuitive, but I think the best Wi-Fi was in a
48:03
jungle at Costa Rica. Well, that's the kind of of responses
48:08
that I'm looking for. Yeah, they had everybody had like starving connections. It was
48:14
high speed broadband, low ping, high latency. Low latency, sorry. Amazing.
48:22
Nice. Best co-working space that you've been. Oh,
48:29
all right. I've been discovering a lot of co-working space now in Barcelona. And I have to say it was in Barcelona,
48:35
the one I like the most. Cool. Back home. Yeah,
48:40
it happens. It can happen. Of course. Uh, best digital nomad community.
48:46
Um, so it's not it's not a place because they
48:52
travel they travel around. So I've been meeting the same people like I'm going
48:58
to shout out a couple of brands here that that do that do these trips. So
49:06
the Nomad summit in Chiang Mai, Nomad base all over the world, the people from
49:14
um Vietnam, Vietnam Nomad Fest, Han and Daang, the the group of people that you see in
49:20
these communities, I don't know where are where they are now at this moment, but this is the the communities. I like
49:26
place to be. Yeah, it's it's like the people you are with, not the place. I don't know the
49:32
next one if it's your kind of life but best city for dating as a nomad.
49:38
Oh, you know I I don't like I don't like
49:43
that because when I'm when I'm nomading I'm staying for short period lasting my life short
49:51
period of time and when you date for short periods of time it can be very
49:56
intense but it's not longlasting. So for me the best city the best city for
50:02
dating wouldn't be for nomads would be for experts. So once you're an expert
50:07
Yeah. and whatever personal preferences you have. Makes sense.
50:12
Most overrated cities. City for normally. Yeah. Changai.
50:18
Okay. Changai is very popular. Everyone said yeah we have to go to Chiang Mai. The city is not finished. The streets are
50:24
not finished. The food I I love Mediterranean food. I was having belly
50:30
issues all the time since I was there. And the people, they don't speak English, the locals there. So, I don't
50:36
understand why everybody loves and and there are cockroaches and it's it's hot. It's I I don't understand why people
50:43
love Chiang Mai so much. Best sunset spot.
50:49
Oh, Tarifa without a doubt. Cool. Best street food?
51:01
Ah, where was I? Yeah, Argentina. Uh,
51:09
I was in Buenosiris. Buenosirus. I I loved it there because I'm a meat lover and even in the street they they cook
51:16
you like these chants and everything. Loved it.
51:21
uh country with a surprising tech scene or startup start startup B that you
51:26
wouldn't expect
51:40
and I've been in many startup hubs. I've been in in the US. I've been in San Francisco in in Silicon Valley. I've
51:47
been in Europe startup hubs overrated.
51:52
I prefer Yeah, I'm repeating Costa Rica
51:58
because it's it's it's surprising. It's like you think that no this they are in the middle of the jungle. No, they are
52:05
more advanced. They are more advanced technologically than us. Maybe because they have to overcome
52:11
more issues than we have because we take we take things for granted.
52:17
No, no, no. And and the community, the text, the tech scene that I met there, they were all foreigners like Canadians,
52:25
greeningos, Europeans that went there because they were not allowed to grow as
52:33
much or with as much freedom in their hometowns. So that's why I say that there are strong
52:40
passports and the passports that will become strong. So it's the same with with countries. These countries that are more freedom that allow you for freedom
52:47
of experiment with technology, those are the ones I like. And as Costa Rica, I just came back a couple of months ago.
52:53
Amazing. Best country for public transport. Oh, South Korea, of course, without a
53:00
doubt. What? And I've been in Japan as well, but in Tokyo, but no, no, South Korea in
53:07
general. They have like 20 different rail companies. They all using the same
53:13
interconnections. It works. It works. You know what? I was a pilot. To me, a three minute
53:19
delay was a delay. And I I'm living in Spain now where there are trains that they are announced and sometimes they
53:24
don't even appear. It's like, oh no, no, sorry. This train didn't arrive. No, no, South Korea.
53:29
An actual on time. Let's close this uh first miniame with
53:35
another Wi-Fi. Most surprisingly bad Wi-Fi experience. Okay, I'm going back to Tarifa. I just
53:42
came back from Tarifa. I'm Spanish. I have a Spanish cell phone. I couldn't send messages. I had to go back to the
53:48
hotel. What What's going on there? And maybe it's because it was like this the week
53:53
of the of of the shutdown of the this electricity
53:58
cut, the power cut. But I was there for two weeks and
54:04
surprisingly. Cool. Um, taking a look into the time I
54:09
will do one game more with you today and that's I call it what's in my backpack.
54:17
Uh, so I very I will just throw uh some common nomad travel items and you give
54:24
me a thumbs up if you think it's really useful or a thumbs down if you say nah
54:29
this is overrated people are just using it but it shouldn't be like that.
54:36
All right, let's go. The first one it's uh a VPN subscription.
54:41
Yes. Yes. Always. Packing cubes.
54:46
You know this packing what? Cubes. It's this kind of cooling systems. Uh yeah, if you don't know what
54:54
it is, it's a thumb down directly. Maybe it's a thumbs down. Yeah, sorry. A portable espresso maker. That's a very
55:01
Italian. Oh, if you are sleepy, you you sleep.
55:06
Siesta. Uh, portable Wi-Fi router or travel hotspot.
55:14
Yes. Yeah. Power bank. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
55:20
Uh, universal power adapter. No. No. It's too big. It's too big. Just
55:26
Okay. One for each country. Yes. having two phones.
55:34
Yes. But maybe for different reasons like for privacy more than maybe people
55:40
have like business and private. Okay. So the division between personal and and business related. Yeah.
55:46
Yeah. Reusable water bottle. Uh all the time.
55:52
All the time. A Bluetooth speaker. Yes.
55:57
very useful. Related to that, a Kindle or an e-reader?
56:04
No, I always travel with my books. I like reading in paper and it's it's a mess because
56:11
they occupy space, but the feeling I need to touch the
56:16
paper. Um, a quick dry towel.
56:23
Yes. And the last one that I have, it's noise noise cancelling headphones.
56:31
And me being a pilot, I consider that and I had that for a couple of years. But people must understand that it's not
56:39
noise cancelling. This is an effect that makes inside of your ear, but you're making your ears work twice because it's
56:47
giving you the music plus the sound from the exterior upside down. So that means
56:52
that if you're using it a lot, you're reducing the the the usage of your of
56:58
your ears. So if you bring them, just be be conscious of of the impact it will
57:04
have on your older. Okay. Do you have any other item that
57:10
you need to have yes or yes in your backpack? I always bring it at a small um
57:16
deodorant spray for long trips. I don't want to sit next on to someone when I'm
57:21
smelly. No. Do do the thing that you don't want to. No. Don't do the thing to others that
57:28
you don't want for yourself. I I respect the people next to me, so I don't want them to suffer.
57:34
That's great. Cool. Um, so yeah, as you already know, I ask um I will jump to
57:40
the audience Q&A and uh I am I ask some qu some people for questions. Uh
57:47
unfortunately like I had four or five questions. We touched nearly all of them. Great. Like how do you choose your
57:55
next destination? How do you manage like settling down with uh if you thought about settling down permanently? So we
58:01
touch most of them but there is one very interesting one from uh Ramir Anda uh
58:08
which is asking how do you manage to deal with mental health uh with such
58:15
fluid lifestyle? I like the term. Well, you know, I'm a grown man, so I
58:22
don't care. It's like life moves you. Life keeps going. So if
58:28
if you are and maybe I'm saying that from a a privileged position, I don't
58:33
know how you want to call it, but if I'm sad, I try to not be sad. If I'm happy, I enjoy happiness. So it's like I'm not
58:40
thinking about any of this. And this is like probably people will start laughing at this. No, I I I have my interest in
58:48
my life. So which is being happy. So I find the things that make me happy and
58:54
that's it. So by following the things that make me happy, I don't have to think about my mental
58:59
health. And maybe there is something that helps me with the mental health and maybe I'm not a doctor so I don't know
59:06
the direct relationship but I'm a very sportsy person. You see right now I'm wearing my sporty clothes
59:12
because after this call Yeah. I'm I'm going No, Chase from Jordy. Of course.
59:18
After this call, I'm going to the to the gym. I practice artistic gymnastics all days of the week
59:24
in in the gym or on the beach or on the calistthenics parks. So maybe people say people that know say that sports give
59:32
you or or helps you balance your mental health. So maybe this is something that that is
59:37
helping. I don't know. Of course. And if JMA wants to send a foot cell shoes, I'm I'm up to it. Uh
59:45
I mean they are from Valencia so yeah welcome welcome new sponsors
59:52
for expert and experts. Um so yeah Jordy um it arrived the moment a
59:59
little bit of like telling uh about what you are building uh what what is you the
1:00:06
job that you are doing right now? How can uh people check what you're doing, where they can find you, and and how to
1:00:12
support you al of course. Amazing. Yeah. And I'm glad that you bring this up now after we talk or we
1:00:18
touch some points like you asked me that about that before and one of your
1:00:25
interview or or your audience questions was also related like how do I choose my my next destination?
1:00:31
So what I'm doing now, I said no, I I pick my next destination based on my communities. So I like to find people
1:00:36
and I talk you about Facebook group, Telegram groups. So I am helping build
1:00:41
this tool for digital nomads to help them find their next destination which
1:00:47
I'm using for myself of course so it helps me pick where to go next and it's called Satlantis. Uh we have a website
1:00:55
it's called satlantis.io IO and we are organizing the cities
1:01:01
the most popular cities for nomads based on uh some scores that people from there
1:01:09
local people is giving. For example, we give a score of how businessfriendly is
1:01:14
this city or from the legal standpoint. We talked about taxes before. Are taxes
1:01:20
high or or or low or is it like a good a good city to
1:01:26
raise a family or is it safe? So, I'm I'm helping to to build this product
1:01:33
that will help nomads to find their next city. And this information can be found on the internet. You just type Barcelona
1:01:40
safety rate, enter, and you got it. The problem is that all this information
1:01:45
that you can find is not structured in the same way from different cities and then it's difficult to compare one city
1:01:52
to another and maybe somebody have heard of nom at list which was a tool that was
1:01:58
built for that and that was like a a pioneer like they were pioneering on
1:02:04
this database and now there are many others and what we're trying to do is that because databases can be stale they
1:02:12
can be static We are adding other social aspects because when you go to a new place and
1:02:18
this is this happened to me when I went to Korea I started with a Facebook group Korean experts experts in Korea but then
1:02:25
I arrived in Korea and I realized that people don't use Facebook there they use cacao and but how how would I know or if I go
1:02:34
if I go to the US they don't use WhatsApp they use messenger how do I know until I get there so what
1:02:41
we're trying to is like u a centralized place where you have information about the city like
1:02:47
stats and facts, city scores, what type of electric charger you told me what you have like universal. It tells you that
1:02:53
it tells you the the local currency. It tells you the information about the internet speed. Okay.
1:02:59
So, we're gathering all these and because all the cities are following the same structure, it is easier for the
1:03:04
traveler to to get this information. And we're mixing this database with a social network. And what do travelers normally
1:03:10
do when they travel? They need a place to live. They need a place to eat. They need a place to work. So, we are adding
1:03:15
a map of merchants so it's easier for you to find. And we are using like a lot of new technologies that are called
1:03:21
freedom technologies. I don't want to dig deeper into this, but what we're trying to do is like to aggregate all
1:03:26
the different needs that a frequent traveler has and put them all into a same place and then when you're finding
1:03:32
your next destination, it is easier for you to to compare. And because it is a like um a new a new tool
1:03:40
um you will see few people. Why is that good? Because then it's easier to
1:03:45
connect with other people. So we are organizing information of of cities. So before going to that
1:03:52
city imagine like you you're logging in in into uh Instagram. Yeah. Instagram there's a lot of noise. You
1:03:59
have to scroll down a lot a lot a lot. Even if you scroll infinite you will never see all the content. Yeah.
1:04:04
And the problem with Instagram is that there is there is no map. You can search and then there is a hidden map somewhere but it doesn't work always pretty well.
1:04:11
So what we're trying to do is like imagine if you could put Instagram inside of Google Maps. So you have
1:04:17
Google Maps which works very very well. Then you have the visuals of of of Instagram. But the problem with
1:04:22
Instagram is that there is like this algorithm that you don't know what you're seeing and they're trying to get your attention to hook you. So we're you
1:04:30
know I don't like to call them social networks. They are social media companies. They they are fighting for
1:04:36
your attention. So what we're trying to do is go back to the origins of the social network. So when you go to a
1:04:41
place, we want to help you find what is your best next destination based on not only the city stats and facts, but also
1:04:48
on like-minded people. And that's the way I find new communities. When I go, I log into Satlantis. And we also have a
1:04:55
Android and iOS app that you can download. And then you have like the the desktop tool that you would use to
1:05:02
select your next destination. And then once you are in the destination, you can use it using your GPS. What is the
1:05:08
restaurant next to me or people I like to to find, etc. So this is this is what I'm working on.
1:05:14
So if somebody wants to find me, just look at.io or go on to Twitter and search for my
1:05:21
name, Satlantis. Jord Young Atlantis, something like that. Atlantis is like you know like the lost city
1:05:27
Atlantis with an S in front of it because we are looking for sovereign individuals like
1:05:33
these people that is responsible of where they go next is their their choice. It's not oh I'm born here I need
1:05:39
to live here and die here. No I'm sovereign I can choose. So it's like the lost city that everybody's looking for.
1:05:45
That's the origin of the of the name. Cool. Um yeah, for the audience
1:05:50
interested of course all uh the information is always in the description of the episode also the links uh social
1:05:57
media hashtags etc etc. So you can uh contact Jordi or someone at Atlantis if
1:06:02
you're interested on it. Um yeah to wrap up things and uh maybe with a last uh
1:06:09
funny or unexpected story from one of your travels. Uh I give you the last stage time let's say like this. uh if
1:06:16
you can explain any crazy funny story that you had uh during your time.
1:06:22
I have this good story that is connected to my work at Satlantis. Through
1:06:27
Satlantis, I met this group of sovereign individuals. Mhm.
1:06:32
That are living in a mansion up in the hills in the in a lost city in Costa
1:06:41
Rica called Uvita. And by private connections that I made through through
1:06:48
my interest, I got invited to this secret party at what's called the Primal
1:06:53
House. And as you can imagine, Primal House, it was like like primates, you know, it's like going back to the origin
1:06:59
of of mankind. And you could see like this amazing men, they look all like Tartan
1:07:05
and with their chains. So it was amazing them. and and they invited me to to this
1:07:10
uh to this dinner party with a swimming pool, etc. And and there is uh and Paul
1:07:16
Paul in the jungle, he told me this night, "Jeie, we're going to a to a waterfall. Do you want to come?" I'm
1:07:22
like, "Yeah, sure. Why not?" But it was pitch black night. You couldn't see anything. So, two of them, they were
1:07:28
just with their phones with the flashlights showing us the the route. And we arrived to the to the waterfall.
1:07:35
It was a waterfall because they told me so. You know, it was so dark. I just could hear the river. And they told me,
1:07:41
"Sit here." I sat. And then they told me, "Okay, put your hands here." And now
1:07:47
when we count to three, you just move backwards and and and stay and and stay
1:07:53
there. One, two, three. They close the lights, the flashlights. I go backwards
1:07:58
and the water flow pushes me. And I remember I was I think I counted to
1:08:04
three or to four. I was in the air like one, two, three, four, boom. And then I
1:08:09
and then I fell down and and I felt like wow. Then next day I went there, it was like almost 20 m waterfall. These people
1:08:16
is crazy. And they they just nothing happened and
1:08:22
and it was such a great experience. I'm I had so much fun with Paul and the guys. And I would repeat it and I would
1:08:29
recommend anyone that if you go to one place and you find your community just trust them because it's I would have
1:08:35
done this probably if if I would have known the place but I trusted them because they were my
1:08:41
community. So it was it was so amazing and I felt like okay I'm I'm one of the of them now.
1:08:48
Cool. Cool and scary. Yeah, good that you're okay.
1:08:54
It was such an amazing experience. I had so much fun with the guys. So, yeah,
1:08:59
if you're here, if you're listening, thank you for the for the invitation and and see you soon hopefully in Costa Rica
1:09:06
or somewhere else. Sure. And if you want to be a guest,
1:09:11
happy to to host someone else from there. All right, that would be nice. I'll tell them. Um Jordi, it has been a
1:09:19
very nice uh pleasure and very nice talk. Uh I really love to have your
1:09:24
perspective on life and and and exploring a little bit onto more like the nomad approach which we don't have
1:09:30
that often here at Expert Expert. So uh thank you so much. Uh it's been a pleasure Mark. Thank you for
1:09:37
having me. It's again I I like your your show and I'm glad that I'm learning from
1:09:42
your from your show and that I can be part of it. So, thank you again for the invitation. Thanks uh for everyone listening. Of
1:09:50
course, as always, don't don't forget to subscribe uh rate, share our show, and
1:09:55
uh if you enjoy it. And until then, keep exploring, stay curious, and see you in the next episode of Expat Experts.