0:00
what wasn't easy was reaching 60 years old and then being required to learn a new language so you can legally buy and
0:07
smoke Canabis in in designated coffee shops the church was looking for an English-speaking Pastor a native English
0:13
speaker remember about New Year's Eve was uh feeling like I was in a war zone because of the fireworks uh just a few
0:20
years left of work life and I would like to make these as interesting as possible
0:25
what is the main role of a presbyterian pastor
0:30
having lived in the heg for 9 months I realized I'm not as Dutch as I thought I
0:35
was welcome to another episode of expat experts today we have the pleasure of
0:42
speaking with Douglas Brower the Presbyterian Pastor who has not only LED congregations in the United States but
0:49
also in Switzerland and the Netherlands Beyond his pastoral duties Douglas has
0:54
embarked on multiple mission trips pilgrimages and Studio tours around the globe in this this episode will delve
1:01
into his unique experience living abroad the cultural nuances encountered and the insights he gained from his travels so
1:08
sit back relax and let's explore this expert experience together dog uh
Guest Background & Expat Journey
1:15
welcome thank you for much for accepting the invitation I'm really happy to have you here um yeah thank you thank you for
1:23
having me I I think we will have a very nice time in in this episode uh you have
1:30
a very interesting background and actually you are one of the if not the first person who is deeply involved or
1:36
had a religious life uh who I interviewed here in in the podcast so I'm I'm really curious about that so
1:43
maybe we jump directly into it like uh I would like to know a little bit your background where did you grow up uh and
1:50
what led you to to a pursue a religious and and travel path both of
1:57
them yeah I grew up in um the United States and I think I was born to some
2:03
very adventurous parents um every summer my parents would take off on a
2:09
three-week road trip around uh North America I mean we we visited uh every
2:15
state in the United States and most of Canada uh and so I I had this um
2:23
adventurous Spirit model for me by my parents and I just continued in
2:29
adulthood and uh and it's really gotten out of [Laughter]
2:34
hand wow that's wonderful I think it's it's a common pattern I heard it that a
2:40
lot like people who Liv abroad normally come from families that used to travel uh so that their parents are the ones
2:47
who started know this passion a little bit um what what about the religious part because uh you are a a presbyterian
2:55
Pastor which it's not a a most common uh
3:00
path to follow no you are not uh in the in the normal Market of work let's say
3:06
like this yeah in terms of living abroad I I think I I was coming up on my 60th
3:13
birthday and I thought uh I've got just a few years left of work life and I would like to make these as interesting
3:20
as possible I don't want to keep doing the same thing over and over again and it was about that time that uh I heard
3:27
about a church in Switzerland uh that was looking for a new pastor and I
3:32
applied and and I ended up spending nearly five years
3:38
there nice so the first time was Switzerland and it was your first move uh with 60 years old which is a big
3:45
decision to take it's not a it's not an easy one I suppose also no my uh my daughters were grown
3:52
and so uh being empty nesters it was easier to make that uh kind of a
3:58
move uh what wasn't easy was reaching 60 years old and then being required to learn a
4:05
new language so I can't imagine and swiss which is even more complex
4:10
normally for for right yeah you know it's better to learn a language before you're 10 years
4:17
[Laughter] old but it's it's never late for anything no so better late than
4:24
never I did I I'm shocked I did eventually uh reach Proficiency in uh
4:31
standard German I passed the test but um no it was a struggle to get there okay
4:38
yeah I live for years in Germany not easy either it's not an easy language uh
4:44
for anyone I think like and it has no I mean I would say that it's closer to English than it is for for us in Spanish
4:51
or any Latin language at least certain words but the grammatic it's way too
4:57
complex but yeah so when I was growing up uh everyone was
5:03
required to choose a language and so I chose Latin for some reason which has I
5:08
mean I it was fun and interesting but it had no practical
5:15
value well I don't know like for for religious studies I suppose it it is
5:20
important though like uh yeah maybe in the traditional catholic uh church but
5:25
uh no not really for me okay so
5:31
one question that I had in my in my back of the mind it was what is the
5:36
difference between being a pastor or what is your job was your job in United States very different from the job that
5:43
you did in in Switzerland or or was it similar in the sense of what you did a
5:48
dayto day so very very similar in most
5:54
ways uh but also quite different mainly because of the mix of cultures
6:00
um they the church was looking for an English-speaking Pastor a native English
6:05
speaker so I I I fit the bill and uh what we shared in common in this church
6:10
was that we were English speakers uh but the the church had more than two dozen
6:17
uh nationalities and language groups uh so it was very very diverse
6:23
and I think that was what presented the challenge uh uh at meetings where
6:29
decisions had to be made we had to work extra hard to understand a cultural
6:35
point of view and I mean I'm proud of myself that we were able to do it but it was hard
6:41
work can imagine I mean it's also part of your
6:47
work I assume no like uh understanding the problems and and understanding the cultural backgrounds of these people so
6:53
you might be there as a support um but for doing that you need to to be open
7:01
and be very or have a very broad culture of of uh how people
7:06
are you know I've been told and I I this makes sense to me that uh Presbyterians
7:12
people from my religious background are actually good fits for these International churches because we tend
7:18
to be uh open accepting um I mean we certainly have our own way of doing things uh but we
7:25
all also uh tend to be uh open to other ways uh just a little matter of baptism for
7:32
example you know I'm I'm used to baptizing infants I mean that would be my tradition well the the people I met
7:40
in Switzerland had all different uh approaches to the sacrament of baptism and and I I just found it fascinating I
7:47
went I went with it sounds very interesting I I suppose it also enriches
7:54
you uh the meeting other people and meeting other ways of do it's always a it's always a
8:02
benefit you know uh I think that military chaplain uh face the same issue
8:07
that they may come from a specific tradition but they are expected to serve people from all different religious
8:13
backgrounds and that that's a little bit of the way I I felt nice did you said something interesting
8:21
when you said that you arrived to 60 years old you knew that there was a limited time of working so it it was
8:29
clear for you that that you would retire after I don't know five years and then
8:34
it it was just like a temporary move to to to a country or or at some point you
8:40
even like considered staying in Switzerland for for the rest of your life for
8:45
example I don't think we ever uh considered that mainly because we have children and grandchildren uh in the US
8:52
but I have returned twice after uh retiring I I served two more churches uh
8:59
once again in Switzerland and then uh for nine months in the he
9:06
so it's very difficult to get me to retire I I feel drawn uh drawn back and
9:12
if the telephone rings during our conversation I will probably say
9:18
yes no problem so you are always available for for for your people which
9:24
is which is great um what what is the moment and like you said like you stayed
9:31
5 years in in Switzerland when is the moment that you you you switched to to go to Netherlands uh what happened there
9:38
well we my wife and I moved back and we settled in uh Michigan we live in the
9:44
state of Michigan and um yeah within a year I I received a
9:51
call would you come and help us on a temporary basis and so I moved back to lern Switzerland just for a few months
9:58
and then you know not not much more time went by and I had a similar opportunity
10:05
to go to the heg and since my grandparents are Dutch
10:11
who were Dutch immigrants to this country I was especially interested in In Living in the
10:18
Netherlands can we talk further about that I learned something very I learned
10:23
something very important I thought I've always thought of myself as Dutch I the Dutch last name
10:30
and uh just about everybody I know in this community is a descendant of Dutch
10:35
grandparents well having lived in the heg for nine months I realized I'm not
10:41
as Dutch as I thought I was and it's not just that I don't speak the language it's that um I'm so far removed
10:49
from the Dutch culture i and that became clear to me by by living
10:54
there it's it's interesting and I think it's kind of a common pattern for for
11:00
like third generation kids who or people who grow up in another country you
11:05
absorb much more even if your parents are fully or even your grandparents are fully from from a country you absorve a
11:11
lot of your of the environment where you grow up no so uh you end being
11:16
more I feel that after living four years in Germany and three years and a half in
11:22
Greece I do things a little bit more like like they would do it than I would
11:29
do it in in back at home in Barcelona so is it do you think there was anything
11:35
that you absorbed from from your time abro it's something that you took back home in the US from Switzerland and
11:42
Netherlands oh I uh took a great deal back there was a great deal that I learned uh as a result in fact I I I
11:49
wrote a book about my experience that's not the one we we're getting together to talk about but
11:54
um I I think uh the church in the United States any anyway is not very diverse
12:01
not very Multicultural uh people tend to stay with their own ethnic and racial
12:06
groups uh but what I observed was the richness of of life that was possible
12:13
when people from diverse backgrounds come together nice what do you miss the most
12:20
from Europe from from from your time there I
12:25
was just there uh this past weekend I wouldn't recommend this a long weekend trip but I was back in
12:31
Zurich uh for the the funeral or memorial service for a dear friend and I
12:38
was reminded uh in this very brief visit of how rich the cultural life is in
12:45
Europe compared to uh the US and I'm I'm thinking of food uh but also architecture and art
12:53
and so on I I missed that so much
Biggest Challenges & Surprising Moments
12:59
what about challenges what surprising moments are like in the good way and in the bad way like what what was the I
13:07
don't know the the significant adjustments that you faced in both Switzerland and Netherlands when you arrived so I
13:15
um so I I read something about Swiss culture uh before I went that would help
13:21
me to understand what we were facing and I forget the author now but he likened Swiss culture to a coconut culture where
13:29
Americans are a peach culture so uh Swiss have a hard exterior but once you
13:36
get to know them they are very soft and easy to get to know and wonderful people and the example would be that the the
13:43
man who's uh funeral service I I went back for this past weekend a dear dear
13:50
friend Americans on the other hand tend to be a peach culture so we appear to be
13:56
approachable uh we appear to be easy to get to know oh uh just ready to engage in any
14:05
conversation but at the core very difficult there's a part of us that's
14:11
impenetrable according to this author that was such a helpful insight for me
14:17
in moving to uh Switzerland so it's it's a little bit
14:23
like the getting to know people it's a little bit more difficult you felt like
14:30
at least at the first level of contact it's it's difficult to make friends to to give contact at the very beginning no
14:36
I suppose at the beginning yeah but then once we establish that friendship oh my
14:42
goodness um I view some of those relationships as um lifelong
14:49
relationships makes sense I think there is a couple of cultures in there and I Switzerland and and Germany are closely
14:56
related in that sense I would say um what it's what's the most rewarding
15:02
part of of working abroad as a pastor for
15:09
you uh you
15:15
know that's surprisingly that's a surprisingly difficult uh question to answer I enjoy being a pastor period no
15:22
matter which culture I happen to be working in but um I think what was
15:27
rewarding about it uh was that challenge of diversity so when I came back uh I I
15:33
felt compelled uh to write a book called how to become a multicultural Church uh
15:39
so it was that struggle to understand a variety of cultures that uh I
15:47
appreciated in the end I mean that was what I I didn't realize it at the time but that was what I most needed to
15:55
do very interesting when you're with people who look like you and who speak like you do
16:03
um I think you take for granted how easy it is to communicate the smallest uh you know
16:10
facial expressions communicate a great deal so I'm very comfortable in my own culture but then to take me out of this
16:17
culture and put me in a a different setting requires a great deal of
16:23
concentration and uh I love that challenge
16:29
talking about challenges also like how did you manage to learn you you said
16:35
that you arrived nearly at the proficiency of of German which is not an easy language at all uh how did you do
16:42
it like you invested a lot of hours into it I went to a a language class in my
16:48
Village I did not live in Zurich uh where the church was but I I lived in a village and as it turned out there were
16:55
other expats like me who needed to uh learn German for the work permit uh so
17:01
weekly language uh class I read a daily German uh newspaper I listened to um uh something
17:10
called slow news uh published by deel so every day I listened to the news
17:16
but it was four people like me who were trying to learn the language uh I spent uh a month one
17:23
summer in Berlin at the G Institute uh and so that was a total
17:29
immersion for a month uh with other students who were much younger than I was uh and I can't resist telling you
17:36
this I had a wedding uh in uh Potsdam so a suburb of of Berlin
17:44
uh but that was the first time I'd ever spoke German in a public setting
17:50
and was expected to you know communicate it well and nobody complained but I don't think anybody complimented me
17:57
either H that's a Hard One to get though especially in Berlin because most of the
18:02
people doesn't at least now in the in the center of Berlin it's even difficult to learn to hear German
18:09
so I was surprised by how Multicultural uh Berlin is yes yeah um I was just asking if if you if
18:18
you work also in in English in in in the Netherlands uh I did and I have a funny
18:26
story about that I uh again they wanted an a native English speaker to to be their Pastor uh but I thought I would be
18:34
proficient in Dutch because I grew up among Dutch people so I can't resist telling you this story I went to visit a
18:40
woman uh in a rehab center she was recovering from surgery and I I went to the front desk and I said I would like
18:46
to see Trudy Vander Mulan and the person at the desk said oh I don't think we
18:51
have a Trudy vanderin and she was looking through her papers and she said oh but we have a Trudy Vander Mulan and
18:58
I I said that's what I said she said' no no no you didn't but we do have a Trudy
19:03
vandermill and she gave me directions to her room and in that moment I
19:09
realized I was not Dutch I'm an American who often pretends
19:14
to be Dutch and uh I have you know I enjoy visiting the Netherlands but I am
19:19
not Dutch I you you need to go to the to the
19:25
root of a of a cultural thing to realize some times that you are not as as
19:30
proficient with the language with their cultures and not as involved as you think you are no sometimes
19:37
yeah um what is so I I lived in couple of of
19:45
uh of European countries right now especially and and never lived in in Switzerland or Netherlands but I lived
19:51
in Germany which is closing off and and I notice that the the religion belief or
19:58
the the the belief between people it's it's in a in a descent let's say like this uh did you
20:04
face challenges due to to your work as a pastor in Europe like due to the fact
20:09
that people are not as as as religious as they used to be yeah I was certainly aware of that
20:16
the uh religious affiliation is very very
20:21
low in most Western European countries so yeah but um there are some VI
20:29
communities of Faith here and there and I happen to serve one uh on on uh
20:34
Mondays my day off I would travel to uh surrounding villages to see their
20:40
churches and uh they usually started out as a Catholic Cathedral and then uh
20:46
after the Reformation they became Protestant and today uh within the last 50 years they become secular meeting
20:53
spaces and sometimes churches use them on Sundays but typically they are event
20:59
spaces that people rent so that has been the religious Trend in the Netherlands
21:06
from Catholic majority to in certain areas anyway Protestant to nothing at
21:13
all and I'm just glad that these beautiful buildings are are being uh
21:20
preserved curious I mean the buildings are important and the architecture is
21:26
still there and it needs to be preserved and flourish so uh it it is curious though that the
21:31
transition that Humanity takes no un beliefs sometimes it's it's it's
21:36
interesting to see which progress and and uh doesn't mean that they are not
21:41
believing in God that's another question also like it's it's
21:46
separate uh the trend is certainly uh down in the west though um but what is
21:53
clear is that in Africa and in several Asian countries there is a very very
21:59
strong religious presence and so my churches in Switzerland and the
22:05
Netherlands tended to have a heavy uh participation from um you African
22:11
natives and and Asian natives yeah which which made life as I
22:16
say very very interesting and challenging yeah I think it's typical
22:22
also I mean in in in Spain a lot of uh churches rely a lot on on on uh South
22:29
American Immigration for example because uh in in in in South America the the the
22:37
religious part it's still very very very strong compared to what it is in Spain of course we have a lot of immigration
22:42
due to the language and it's true that you see a lot of people in churches who are immigrants so that's also it's it's
22:50
very interesting to see I have another little um footnote to
22:55
add to that story we we actually saw very few expats in our churches so I had
23:02
lunch one day with the Headmaster of the American School in zich and I I said can
23:08
you explain to me what what's going on and he said Doug uh when expats spend
23:15
two or three years in a country like this they live for the weekend
23:21
and on the weekends they are off sightseeing and skiing and and uh
23:26
certainly not going to church even though back in the US they may they may
23:32
very well have a church affiliation they're uh they're not church goers while they're
23:39
here which at the end it makes sense no a little bit like they are there for a certain time and they want to take as
23:45
much Advantage as you can of like visiting everything seeing everything uh which which it's nice um before we jump
23:53
to the next uh section I would I would really like to to to to ask you for for
Expat Life Hack & Advice
23:59
a life hack an advise a tip that you would give anyone who who would like to
24:05
move abroad and maybe especially also in in the Pastoral or Community Focus role
24:11
that like you had uh what would you say to someone who would like to follow a little bit the steps that you
24:17
took I I've already given you one and that was doing some reading about the culture and so I reading about the
24:24
coconuts and the peaches was very helpful uh going into Switzerland and then the the the second uh bit of advice
24:31
I would give is to work very hard at uh establishing relationships inviting
24:38
people uh into your home uh for dinner I I had some built-in
24:44
relationships there were people who who knew me as their pastor and so I had an advantage at that level but I I still
24:52
think that we had to work hard uh to have people into our home so we could
24:58
get to know them better and that was true for our apartment building uh believe it or not we had to uh make an
25:05
extra effort uh to get to know these old Swiss Germans in our in our
25:12
apartment I can imagine like that that remembered me a little bit of of Germany
25:17
like and getting to know the the neighbors it's not always an easy task or or when you meet the neighbor it's
25:23
because of bad things not because of good ones normally so one of the jokes in Switzerland is that there are 9
25:29
million police in Switzerland and that's about the population of uh Switzerland
25:35
but they are they are very attentive to following the rules especially about noise on Sunday
25:42
so our neighbors would let us know if we were not behaving on on
25:48
Sundays I talking about that directly then I would say we jump into the into the cultural de life I do this in a
25:55
little bit like a miname section let's say like this I I it's not really a game it's just a a little bit of like a back
26:02
and forward to to share uh knowledge about about the culture and and the countries you lived on hey there
26:09
everyone I hope you're enjoying this episode so far remember that the best way to stay tuned with the latest
26:16
episodes of the podcast is by clicking on subscribe in YouTube and in your favorite audio platform for extra
26:22
content and information follow like and comment on our social media and visit our website exper Express podcast.com
26:28
thank you for supporting our podcast and let's continue with the episode and the first one that I would like to to uh
Cultural Deep Dive & Fun Comparisons
26:36
propose to you it's a guess the local custom uh I'll describe a cultural
26:42
practice or a tradition that they have and if you know it I would like you to
26:48
to tell me if it belongs to the Netherlands or it belongs to Switzerland um every New Year's Eve
26:55
people jump into freezing cold water as a
27:01
tradition that's not what I expected you to say about New Year's Eve in the Netherlands it's
27:07
fireworks uh but uh that might be I don't know I I don't
27:14
know as far as I know that's uh New Year di which is in Netherlands especially in
27:20
the North Region I suppose they they literally jump into the into into cold
27:25
water as a as a welcome in the here which is something that I cannot do even in summer so uh uh brave from them let's
27:34
say like this what I remember about New Year's Eve was uh feeling like I was in a war
27:40
zone because of the fireworks uh going on no uh I have another one which is like
27:48
it is common to have coffee time break uh with cake and past around 10:30 a.m.
27:54
and around 3:30 p.m. [Laughter]
27:59
again that was not a part of my routine in either country uh but I would like it
28:05
uh where does that Switzerland for sure and I think in Germany it's very
28:11
traditional also to have this coffee on Cen uh moment uh at specific times I I
28:17
would not say it's so strict that it needs to be at 10:30 and 3:30 but but
28:22
definitely it comes uh as a as a break and a tradition
28:28
the Germans and the Swiss typically do things on a rigid schedule yeah
28:36
absolutely um I heard that there are bending machines where you can buy hot
28:44
crocketts and snacks in the streets uh and in Netherlands I don't know if you
28:49
ever seen that there were food carts uh in uh the
28:55
heg yes I do remember that uh I think that these were uh and they
29:01
tended to be staffed by uh immigrants so the the one that I went to at least once
29:06
a week was uh owned and staffed by some Turkish immigrants yeah interesting like
29:15
more like a foot track approach of like eating eating standing in the in the street no uh I think the next one you
29:23
already touch it a little bit but public silence is expected in trains especially
29:28
in certain sections in fact there are silent cars
29:34
um yeah but I that might be true in both the Netherlands and
29:40
Switzerland probably least I I've only experienced a Swiss part of that especially that with the silent trains
29:46
and everything but but probably in Netherlands there is also like an inspection in there you know I don't
29:54
think you have to work very hard at that rule because everyone stares at their phones uh for the entirety of their
30:02
trip that's also true that's also true uh let's do the last one of this one
30:08
people celebrate their birthdays by bringing their own cake to work
30:14
Switzerland that is an odd no it what were you going to say yes yeah yeah I I
30:20
I I assume it can be one of these ones that can be in both also uh but did you
30:26
experience it in Switzerland in Switzerland yes yeah and and it was an odd to me it was an odd
30:33
tradition especially you need to bring your own thing for celebrating your birthday normally you expect to receive
30:38
things no right nice then let's I will jump to the
30:44
next one I prepared an special uh one related to church
30:50
Traditions uh around the world uh but
30:56
uh I research a little bit of Christian Traditions around the world that are not
31:03
as as common as as it could be and I would like to hear if you if you heard
31:09
about them ever uh and I would like to to ask you if you know any special one
31:14
at the end I will just bring a couple um one that I heard from from uh from
31:21
Finland it's that in Christmas Eve uh people go to cemeteries and light
31:26
candles in in order to to honor the deceased ones and the loved
31:33
ones I I am not familiar with that one but that but that tradition uh seems
31:41
like a rich one or it could be a rich one and the second one that I bring in
31:47
it's from from home so in uh in Corpus Christi uh in catalunia uh since 16th
31:54
century actually we performed something that we call local Bala which is the the dancing egg uh and we actually we we do
32:03
a tradition where uh we put an empty eggshell uh on top of a of a jet of a
32:09
fountain and then it spins so it makes it dance like that it's don't ask me
32:16
where it comes from I've seen it multiple times but it's only in Corpus Christi and and we do it only for that
32:24
and it has a religious uh meaning it does uh
32:30
theorically I I don't really exactly know but but it's it's performed actually by by by pastors like it's not
32:36
that you do it on your own it it is a religious ceremony done by by the pastors itself
32:42
yes okay no not familiar with that one so doc I wanted to ask you if you know
32:49
or if you have experienced any non non so uh traditional uh uh Christian uh or
32:58
religious ceremonies in your life you know no this is not going to
33:06
seem unusual to you but I had never uh participated in a baptism in uh in a
33:15
lake now I know that in in some traditions that's the only way it's done but that was unfamiliar to me so um
33:23
there was a a young woman from Africa uh who became a Christian while she was
33:28
living in the ne in in Switzerland excuse me and she wanted to be
33:34
immersed and uh I didn't know how to do that I've never done I've done I've officiated at dozens and
33:41
dozens of baptisms over the years so I had to watch you YouTube
33:47
videos uh uh this is a confession I guess in order to find out how to do it
33:52
and we one Sunday afternoon weighed it out I mean there were a number of church members on the
33:59
but Nadia and I waited out into Lake Zurich and it was since it was the
34:06
summertime it was not too cold and uh I
34:11
I immersed her I mean I put her under the water and brought her back up and
34:16
that's the first and only time in my life that I ever did that and it was I
34:22
have to say it was very very meaningful to me and obviously I remember her name and I could picture the moment in my
34:29
mind right now it was wonderful but it but it was a
34:36
novelty I imagine it must be an honor this part of your work I I assume this
34:42
is like it's not only the connection with the people but it's the memories that you generate for them it's important moments on their life
34:51
so because she was from Africa she had a different cultural re reaction to what happened she came out of the water
35:00
yelling uh making lots of noise I can assure you that no Swiss would ever do that because it's illegal probably
35:10
uh so uh yeah jumping to to the last uh
35:15
cultural dive uh um yeah uh and talking about legal or
35:21
illegal I would like to propose you uh a mini game called local
35:29
laws Challenge and I will bring you laws that exist in Switzerland and
35:36
Netherlands doesn't mean that they are really applied or they are applied in both but uh and you tell me if you
35:43
believe that they they belong to Switzerland they belong to the Netherlands or they belong to both countries I think the first one you
35:50
already touched it but it is illegal to Mau your your loan on
35:56
Sundays can't do that in Switzerland and I assume that there's a
36:02
religious uh origin to that but uh today uh Sunday is a family day and it is
36:09
sacred for that reason yeah I assume it is the the the
36:15
whole Sunday approach it it seems very logical no like uh but it is very
36:21
difficult to find a store uh that's open I discovered that if I needed a grocery
36:27
item could find a store at the train St the main train station in Zurich but all other stores are
36:35
closed um the second one that I have here uh it's about cannabis so the fact
36:42
that you can legally buy and smoke cannabis in in designated coffee shops
36:47
uh I think it's a well-known one it has to be the Netherlands ex
36:53
exactly but I I don't know if it's really like that common or it's really more like a tourist thing uh do do the
36:59
locals really do I don't know I never saw that in the heg uh but I have seen
37:05
it often in Amsterdam so maybe it is for
37:11
tourists there is a law that says that it's illegal to deny top water in
37:21
restaurants isn't that all over Europe I um Americans often ask for tap water and
37:28
the waiters don't like to give it no I I I don't know which country
37:34
that is it's officially in the Netherlands this is registered in the
37:39
low system of Netherlands um for me that was a surprise like uh in a lot of
37:45
countries like Greece Germany and and Switzerland even in in Netherlands you
37:50
you are asked if you want the top water in Greece actually they are literally ask you it's not that you ask for it
37:57
they ask you if you want tap water or bottle one in Spain for example you you ask for tap water and they tell you no
38:04
no you need to buy it yes yeah yeah sparkling or still and then the
38:09
assumption is that it's bottled actually here in Italy also normally it's bottled water it's very
38:16
strange to to receive top water uh one
38:22
more you must have a license to own a TV or a radio
38:27
oh my goodness well I owned a TV in in Switzerland but I don't think I had a
38:33
license for it um I don't know I don't know actually this is in both countries
38:40
and I will add Germany in that and it's not directly the registration for the TV on
38:46
itself as a as a as a Electro domestic or as a as a as a thing it's that you
38:52
need to pay a broadcasting fee uh for owning a a TV or radio I assume sometime
38:58
this is uh inside of the cost of the of the house for example or the rent but uh
39:04
you pay for the broadcasting public broadcasting Services it's like a kind of tax at the
39:10
end I might have broken that law I I I don't remember ever having paid a fee I
39:17
we had to buy the TV in Switzerland of course because of our our connection would not have the electrical connection
39:24
would not have worked but I don't remember no okay let's hope no no no Swiss police
39:31
is listening to this because they will send you the fee and don't worry about that they do
39:38
that let's hope not I I couldn't leave the country until my taxes were uh paid
39:44
I mean I had to deregister pay my taxes before I was allowed to depart they're very serious proba probably you paid
39:51
that into inside of that bundle okay okay so the last one it's actually a
39:57
funny one uh and it's that it's illegal to walk in a pedestrian Zone without
40:09
shoes I I have no idea it's part of a local of local laws in majority of Swiss
40:16
people uh Swiss cities actually and you can be fined by working uh without shoes
40:24
which seems like one of these laws that hasn't been changed for some time but
40:30
uh and yet uh in the summertime people would walk down the Lake Zurich this was
40:36
in our village and uh undress at the at the edge of the water
40:42
and go for a swim well that would never have happened in the US I think you could be arrested for that in the US but
40:50
yeah I think the culture of Switzerland and and Germany of of nudity in The
40:55
Lakes it's it's it's cous I mean I suppose it it might be a shock for you also it was for me and and I'm European
41:04
so if you're right from a from NE another continent it might be a little bit like a why why is people fully naked
41:13
here yes it was new to me um so let's go to the next uh part of
41:22
the episode I I reach to to our listeners in the podcast and I
Audience Q&A
41:27
uh grabbed some questions from from from the audience uh so I would love you to to to
41:34
respond to them um I have a question from from
41:40
Manan um he's asking what is the main
41:46
role of a presbyterian Pastor uh generally
41:53
speaking um pastors usually not not in every case
41:59
because pastors can also work in hospitals and um they can be chaplains in the military and so on but uh
42:05
typically a presbyterian Pastor is assigned to a church and that person leads Sunday
42:13
Services um calls on the sick and the elderly
42:19
and I mean and then then a million other items on the job description but uh
42:25
typically it's to be uh a leader for a a
42:31
congregation nice a related one uh that I have from from current 77 it's what is
42:39
the main difference between a presbyterian uh church and a Catholic uh
42:46
uh Roman Apostolic let this
42:51
um right in the in the uh in the time of the Reformation the uh reformers split
42:57
off from the Catholic church and I'm uh a product of the Protestant
43:03
Reformation and I was raised in a calvinist environment actually Dutch Dutch reformed
43:09
environment uh but the Presbyterians are also part of that uh Protestant
43:15
reformation and they traced their Heritage to Scotland now the the Scottish dimension of American
43:22
presbyterianism has gone away but we are very much a part of the historic
43:27
uh Protestant reformation and uh the good news is I
43:34
think some of those distinctions are becoming less and less important over the
43:40
years sure I mean believe it's belief No so at the end it's uh um talking about
43:47
belief I have one from ANA poo six uh she's asking if living abroad change
43:54
your perspective about God or Rel at all well that's
44:02
a I think that's a good question and I I think I've answered that in a a couple of different ways already for you I I
44:10
think I tend to be an accepting person I I enjoy hearing an alternative uh point
44:15
of view and living abroad certainly challenged uh the narrowness of my own
44:24
experience uh so meeting Christian people from all over the world opened my
44:30
eyes to a variety of different beliefs so yes
44:35
um now I other pastors May respond differently to that but for me it was an enriching
44:42
experience I'm I'm grateful for what what i' learned nice so doc uh before we wrap a
44:50
little bit up the the episode let's say like this um I would love to give you the the space and and seeing how this
44:57
this conversation it's going I know that you have a lot of of of things to say and and insights so um I know that
45:04
you're right I know that you have published books so um what what are you working on what projects can you share
45:11
with the audience I have recently completed a book which is about ready to to be
45:17
released and I think by the time this is broadcast it will have been released the book is called the Traveler's path and
45:24
uh it's a reflection on my uh lifetime of setting out going places meeting
45:31
people and um I think that travel can be it isn't always but travel can be a
45:38
transformative experience and it can have a rich uh spiritual component to and that's what the book is
45:44
about thank you for giving me a chance to plug that no absolutely it's it's part of that it's matter of creating a
45:51
little bit of community and and caring about the what others so uh definitely if the book out which I assume it will
45:58
be or at at the point of time that this goes live uh where can the the listeners
46:04
find uh you as as as a person and in the books Amazon Barnes & Noble those are us
46:12
Publishers of course uh but there are Amazon distributors in Europe uh Amazon
46:18
of Germany France and Italy they will all carry the book nice and more
46:25
personally uh is there any point where people can follow your work
46:30
or be there seeing what you do I have been a blogger for uh 12 years and
46:39
within the last two years I've moved over to substack so I am a sub stacker
46:45
and the brilliant name for my uh newsletter is Doug substack and I would
46:51
love to see your listeners uh I would love it if your listeners found me there
46:57
absolutely um all the links uh hopefully to the book uh in Amazon and whatever
47:03
platforms that are available and also the substack uh as always will be in the description of the episode so go and
47:09
check it out um before we finalize the episode uh I would like to wrap up
Guest Promotion
47:16
things a little bit with with any funny or unexpected story from your time living abroad if you have any so I took
47:24
a summer uh sabatical uh in uh Italy and my so my daughters who were teenagers at
47:31
the time were along with us and one day we toured uh Pompei and hercu to see the
47:37
excavations there and uh while we were touring we learned that a lot of the artifacts had been removed to a museum
47:45
in Naples so we thought okay but that seems like a interesting thing to do and
47:50
we went to Naples uh to the na I think it's the national museum there and there
47:55
was a a special room at the Museum where we had to sign our daughters in in other words we had to
48:02
give permission for our daughters to enter this special room at the Museum in
48:07
Naples well very quickly upon entering this special room we realized that um
48:14
this exhibit was the pornography of uh Pompei we we and apparently there was a
48:23
lot of pornography in uh Pompei so uh my daughter's learned a great deal that day
48:30
from our visit and I I have to say that I learned I learned some things too we
48:35
we never expected uh to H have that be part of our experience but there we were uh
48:43
looking at uh what was taken out of Pompei and hercu was that what you were that was
48:51
not what you were expecting absolutely that's that's one of one of a funny one actually like I wasn't expecting that
48:57
one so thanks a lot my daughters still talk about it and I think they're still
49:03
they're still embarrassed that they did that with their parents can imagine can imagine it's not
49:08
the thing that you want to do as a teenager with your parents definitely
49:13
no um lovely um thank you a lot for sharing your time with me look uh today
Funny Story & Wrap-up
49:19
like I I really really appreciate your your your experience and and you sharing
49:25
with us your journey wisdom um thanks again um and thank you Mark this has
49:33
been uh a fun experience for me you're very well organized and I've appreciated this
49:38
experience thanks a lot so again uh to all of our listeners don't forget to
49:44
subscribe to share this episode go and check uh dog's writings and books and
49:49
and substack uh for more inspiring content until then keep exploring stay
49:55
curious and until the next time in expert experts