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in today's episode we are thrilled to bring you an inspiring story of resilience and adaptability Our Guest is
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a British mother who spent over 12 years with her child and her husband leaving abroad before returning to the UK she's
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also the founder of the exper child.com host of the Podcast expectability chat
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podcast and also the founder of the expectability club please join me welcoming Carl
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harlet mops
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this is expat experts the podcast that dives into the fascinating lives of those who've lived and worked across
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boarders exploring the challenges experiences and insights they've gained along the
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YouTube channel or navigating the life as an expert please visit our website expat experts podcast.com or check the
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link in the description the expat Carol howlet
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mobs let's start with it because I suppose you have a lot of stories to
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tell well I'm not a baby so yes I've got a lot of life behind me
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but yeah we moved overseas in 2006 and we moved to Japan in Tokyo and my
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daughter was five years old just turned five years old at the time and my husband got a job over there and so we
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moved for what was going to be four years and turned out to be about five oh I I met worst that people who
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who decided to be like four months somewhere and stayed for life oh very
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much so that that that comes over usually they're moving overseas For Love or they've moved overseas and then they
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fall in love and then they St but we always knew that it was going to be a posting with an end date we were lucky
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to be able to push the end date a little little bit so was it was it with the final date due to the fact of a contract
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with your husband or you knew that it was a temporary yeah we always knew that
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it was a temporary posting we expected to come back to the okay after that but we then got uh Berlin and Germany and
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then from Berlin unexpectedly got an offer in South
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Africa and then they realized that he hadn't been home for 12 years and said that's it you've got to come back so we
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moved back to the UK in 2018 into the coldest winter that they've had for a long time from summer
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in South Africa so that was a bit of a shock crazy and on all of that you had
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children so you just said like you had your daughter already the first move so she was already five years old she was
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five I've only got the one she's more than enough but yeah she she'd literally
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only done one term of schooling here in the UK so it was pretty easy to move a
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5-year-old to another country but then when you move a kid of you know for
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about the age of 8 9 10 oh it gets more difficult and then you get a teenager
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and well yeah that's what I was going to ask I suppose to move to Japan for her was
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probably more like a cultural shock than a than a thing like for all of you
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probably you know like because the cultures are way they're very different no intriguingly the move to Japan was
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actually the easiest and I think well I think I know a lot of it is
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because we're expecting it to be incredibly culturally different so we are expecting culture
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shock and over the years that I've worked in what I call the exosphere I've realized that culture shock isn't
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actually a thing at a it's moments little snapshots of time um take
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going to China for example that can be a bit of a a culture shock because you'll walk around the corner and find find
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yourself in the middle of a live market and that for a Westerner is quite a shock but in
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Japan you're expecting something different and boy do you get it it is an
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incredible place I mean I'll go for a walk take the dog for a walk in Japan and I'll see somebody taking their
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monkey for a walk or they've got a rabbit in a baby sling or they're pushing a push chair full of doggies
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with clothes on and sunglasses so yeah my life revolves around animals
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and Wildlife I do go off on little side quests about animals so pull me back in
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so yeah it's little moment it's little moment I know you
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moved with BS also and I will ask you about that also afterwards because I've been there not always easy yeah I think
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it's probably easier with pets than it is with
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kids I suppose they don't have that much of like I don't know how did you feel it with your daughter but but the fact that
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you say okay the first move with 5 years old was the easy one yeah it's probably
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also because the circle of friends the the the whole fact of learning a language or like or leaving something
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that they call home no at that point of time with five home are your parents yeah with with 15 home are your friends
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no probably like that's the main difference at that point yeah it starts changing at about the age of 8 N9 10 um
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and that's when they move away from Mom and Dad as being their entire life and
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recognizing that they quite like these other people that aren't you and then
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and also it's to do with proportions so we moved at F uh when she
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was five her conscious memory if you like of the UK wasn't that much but she
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spent five years in Japan at a very core age you know between 5 and 10 so she'll
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remember a lot more of Japan than she did of the UK at the time and it it sort
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of grows in proportion so down to the very first timey move
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really what what about language wise like you you went to a very difficult
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one I mean you went from a very difficult one to another difficult one to another difficult one probably no like it's it's I mean South Africa it's
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not one it's a lot of languages depending on where where you live in South Africa so it is let's let's be
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honest everybody speaks English okay what about Japan how how
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how was the yeah well we had about about a Year's notice before we moved but I
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actually um was running my own business I ran a publishing company before we moved so I didn't actually have time to
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learn the language because I was too bus busy doing um it was a magazine hard
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copy magazine and um and also then selling it because
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I needed to sell it before I moved so it was about two nights I think before we caught the flight to Japan
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that I actually watched a program on television about the gisha of
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Kyoto and of course it was in Japanese with subtitles and I oh my goodness I um I
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can't even pick out a syllable I can't understand a word this is going to be
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interesting but once you're in the country and you're surrounded by the
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sounds and the um I put the radio on in the car for example I always listen to
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the local radios and you start being able to separate um syllables I am no
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linguist I'm from the UK we don't start language training until we're 11 so it's very hard for an adult in my
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generation daughter was speaking sentences in Japanese within about a month of starting school so not bad
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yeah yeah I mean I mean that's also one of the advantages I suppose when they are kids like
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they yeah they just absorb and they don't have the self-consciousness that we have they
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don't mind using the pronunciation um you know and mimicking
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if you like but as an adult they don't have also the stigma no yeah I'm saying
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it wrong I'm I'm not doing this or I'm mocking or I feel like I'm mocking the language in front of them exactly yeah
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so it is easier for a child and they pick it up and I I've got a feeling that once they've got one language it sort of
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opens up the neurons in the brain to quickly pick up other languages I've got friends who speak seven eight nine
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languages I can barely get by in English so but supp that's that's always like
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when you start opening a little bit of like the doors to other things uh you start realizing I I have a very weird
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experience with this and it's just like German helps you to learn Greek this is something that you would never consider
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for example and that's because the grammatic of both languages are the same so
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um it it happens of course like as more languages you add to your repertoire let's say like this the easiest is to to
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to learn other new ones or at least I feel like that um what about think you
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do I think sorry schoolwise like did it your
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daughter went into a you like English school or was she starting in Japanese
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school no no um I don't personally believe in dropping a child into a monol
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language school if um well for lots and lots of reasons
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but because we thought we were only well we knew we were only going to be there for a certain number of years and she would be moving back to the UK we kept
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her in the British educational system so British International School
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and as I say things didn't quite we didn't you know my uh crystal ball
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didn't work so yeah so uh they did language and a lot of cultural uh
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lessons in school but it was taught in English and okay yeah so yeah makes
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makes sense it's also something that I also get quite often no when you have an end date and you have like a date limit
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you also I don't know you take things different from a different perspective you don't I don't know you don't fully
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emerge from days one on like oh I need to be here forever no so
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um how much did you feel that you entered the the the Japanese culture how
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much you end being in it well I recognize
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that Japanese is a very pure culture and
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looking as I do I can never be fully immersed I can't be Japanese apart from
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the fact I'm six foot tall they would direct me to the men's department if I want to choose
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so you're never quite sure how to take me but I recognize that it doesn't
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matter if I wear full kimono to school and speak Japanese like a native I can still never be
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Japanese and mind you it's the same in some Villages here in the UK if your
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great-grandparents weren't born in that same house you're still an outsider so
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yeah but uh yeah it is a very different lifestyle when you know that you'll be
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moving on and for some people it means that they will stay in their exat bubble and they
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will only mix with people of their own nationality and they won't even venture
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to even try local food for example they will only have the McDonald's or it's a
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bit like people who go on holiday to an all-inclusive resort
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yeah I don't yeah so it's difficult I try and get
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into the minds of other people but there are some I can't do yeah I get it I mean at the same time
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like you really go to Japan and you don't try the local food like this is
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like I don't know I you've been like probably eating sushi that it doesn't
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resemble any clothes to real sushi in Japan for quite a long time
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so yeah I'm disappointed at English
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ah I can't get it it it is really different like you notice like it is a
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complete different worldall of f wise or what yeah absolutely um fish I don't
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know you know I I know a lot of animals and birds and wildlife and a few fish
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but there are fish that appear in a sushi and sashimi restaurant that I don't have a clue about um but I would
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try anything once I went to a sshi bar Japanese friend of mine took me to a
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behind the scenes Sushi one that wasn't for tourists they were very surprised to
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see me there and I just pointed something at random and was um he said
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to my friend is she sure she wants that are you sure yeah yeah cuz she would
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like to um dare me to eat stuff yeah give that to her that's fine it wasn't
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the nicest it was very rich and then she told me it was whale
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oh [ __ ] don't go yeah there we go it was
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yeah then she would invite me for breakfast and offer me baby octopus for
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so yeah she was okay what what about the amount of
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people this is something that I always don't know how how I would deal with the
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because you lived in Tokyo like the city it's itself yeah it's a very populated
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dence city like how how did you deal with un cop with it didn't bother me in the slightest because I used to live in
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London and yeah and also being that much over everybody even in London it's
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easier for me I'm not stuck in somebody's armpit on the tube but yeah I didn't personally notice that it was
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overly busy it was yeah it was just a city as far as
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I'm concern and it wasn't wasn't crazy like Beijing and Beijing crossing the
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road feels scary but Japan their whole ethos is respect for others so you never
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felt barged or you know it was a very calm place I I find it
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incredible ni when does it comes the move to Berlin
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I think I I read in in the website or I heard in the in in your podcast about
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the the earthquake in 2011 and being a little bit
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trigger it wasn't the trigger we had we were supposed to go the previous year
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got an extension I think we were supposed to go the previous November but for schooling reasons they gave us an
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extension so we were due to leave in the April of 2011 and then of course on
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March 11th was the nine magnitude earthquake so we didn't leave because of
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the earthquake but it did make leaving so much harder for logistical reasons
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and uh frankly mental health reasons it was we didn't have a Time to Say Goodbye
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to anybody we wanted to leave but we didn't want to leave and fair amount of
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PTSD as well so yeah the leadup to
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leaving Japan was really really tough on my daughter regardless of the earthquake
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because she was at that age then we were moving somewhere that she'd never been before I'd never been before but I'm an
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adult I can see into the future and I can understand Concepts but children
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cannot they can only reference something based on their little experiences of the
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past so it was a a difficult move anyway
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and then the earthquake made it just absolutely uh impossible to deal with so
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but we finally got out and we landed in Berlin I think it was about 2 o'clock in the morning eventually and okay and then
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that was it yeah and that was a Berlin I mean I get because I look
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German apparently so therefore everyone expected um everyone expected me to
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speak fluent German um failed my O Level My GCSE German but
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because I apparently look German I was expected to understand all the rules and everybody
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so that when you see lots of people uh that look like you in a country that you
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kind of assume is going to be similar to Western Europe all over yeah it's
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not and especially Berlin it's a whole case on its own I think like I mean if
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you would to go now probably they will speak you more in in English than in German but uh I think this is like
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gentrification of the whole city is happening very fast um but in that case
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like what what shocked you the most when you arrived to Berlin I mean besides the the whole shock that you were uh having
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from from the move from Japan and and the situation that it was giving back you remember anything that you say oh
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okay I remember that point from when I arrived to Berlin um not so much we were kind of
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Tangled Up in a load of school issues um trying to choose a school from the other
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side of the world where you can't go and visit is really tough so we put her into
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a school that and the other thing is we don't know where we're going to live until we get there so we don't get to
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choose where we live we're just given this this is where you live and it was miles away from her school and her
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School ended up being um just 10 children in the entire year beautiful
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School beautiful GRS but 10 kids who had all been there from the age of
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six so that wasn't great and none of them spoke English even though they've
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been at this international school for very long and then came so we arrived in
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April and by June we had found out accidentally
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the school was turning into a government run school where they do half the
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lessons in German and half in English so daughter was already
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schooling and yeah and it we had a whole year of major School issues so that's
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kind of where my brain was when we first arrived in Berlin makes sense it didn't really get
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any better yeah German education system it's
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great yeah they needed funding from the government so had to run by their rules which was half and half Bilingual
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School how how many years did you spend them in Germany point or wasn't two
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years just two years because then my husband was asked to go and run uh South
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Africa so everybody else was saying oh you can't go to South Africa it's too
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dangerous and go just just go
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was it was it this time a little bit easier for all of you like if the situation in Berlin wasn't the the exact
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thing that you had in mind and the the schooling problems the language not being uh to maybe you are not fitting as
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much as you fitted in Japan for example as as as far as you're saying well Germany was it wasn't so
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much the fitting in it was impossible to find friends and a social network for me
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in Japan because expats are visible you know we can't disguise
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ourselves and when the kids are smaller you all meet up at the school Gates when they get older you don't have that
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school gate thing so it was very very difficult to for me to find a social
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group but by then internet had sort of you know social media had started so you
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know all my friends live my computer hello
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people um what about the pets that's something that I escape in Japan but I
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know that you move already to Japan with PS you move to Germany with more PS even
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or yeah so we moved from the UK to Japan with two young boy cats sadly one of
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them died within a week of arriving and which was awful and then um Ry the tabby
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cat came with us basically until we um almost left but then we got a puppy in Japan so she's
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our Japanese Shiva enu she's a the Japanese national dog and she's our
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souvenir from Japan okay so yeah one of the
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cats the unexpected ones this will be interesting um yeah so Remy and ke the
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dog then came to Germany and then from Germany we went to South Africa and Ry
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eventually sadly died and ended up getting a couple of rescue cats git and
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sui and yes he's called git and you'll probably see why in a moment
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and and then we all came back to the UK where we introduced South African cats
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to British winter the dog thought it was amazing the dog thought it was amazing
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she's not too good with heat and uh and then we acquired another cat since we've
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been back so how about the the the bureaucracy around
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moving so many animals between so many countries because I moved two cats from
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Germany to Greece but it's two countries inside of the European Union it's pretty straightforward vaccinations uh pet
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passport uh European passport and then suddenly you can fly with them that's it
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we moved before brexit took over so we got back into the UK in
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2018 um you basically have to be very logistical very strategic and know
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exactly when the vaccinations need to be done um and preferably get somebody else
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to deal with it all for you and the one thing that bothered me in Germany was
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how early they start and I had to go and find the government vet at halfast 6 in
24:36
the morning to get a stamp on the dogs papers and yeah of course coming back
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into the UK is always tough because of the rabies laws but uh it was straightforward enough it was um we did
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pay for somebody to collect them at the airport and drive them to our home which
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made all the difference because apparently there was a paperwork issue that they dealt with at 4:00 in
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the morning on our behalf so so we had no idea until they all arrived but as
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soon as they arrive it's home a house is a
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home what about the adaptation for them because that's doing stuff down
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there know you said you said two two South African cats arriving to the
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winter in Britain I suppose it's also periods of
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adaptation for animals are can be long also they deal with they settle pretty
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quickly um sui is a tabby she's usually the one that comes to join in uh she's
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actually half African wildcat um because they don't um mind who they get together
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with um the other one is I think a Russian blue I'm not sure he was founded
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a hedge at two days old so he doesn't know what he is but yeah they they've
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settled in really well and uh and the uh the dog loves The Cooler weather over I
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say cooler on the hot day but yeah it's well
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worth what about coming back to to your to the moment that your husband got
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the asked to go to to Africa to South Africa how how how did you dealt with
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that another change after two years another move um no I was fine with that
26:36
I couldn't wait to get out of Germany and Africa's been a childhood dream as I
26:41
wanted to when I was I wanted to go and live in Kenya and work with lions um never quite made it somehow ended up
26:47
with a mortgage and a office job but yeah so Africa for me it absolute dream
26:54
the wildlife and it was yeah it was incredible and you know it's
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it's sad to leave it's one of the countries that the it's got the nicest people the
27:08
people are amazing love the South Africans so you said though that the
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people around you were telling you oh it's a dangerous country did you felt that it was a
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dangerous country point of time yeah it is dangerous I'm not going to sugar OTA
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it's you know it has a lot of issues and I think because I am fairly aware
27:35
anyway and I lived in a very dodgy place in London for a while
27:42
and yeah it all made sense the sort of StreetWise stuff with an extra level of
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you know don't stop at the traffic lights and driving is hysterical getting out of driving African style now I'm
27:56
back in the UK is proving a bit tricky even though I've been a long time go roundabouts be good so yeah it
28:05
is a dangerous place but you're given training and you kind of keep your finger on the pulse as to what's going
28:12
on and be aware don't just wander around with your phone in your hand looking like a lost
28:18
tourist and you can be fine I I assume it happened a little bit of uh also what
28:25
Japan at that point where where do you live in in in South Africa exactly like Pretoria where were you in ptor
28:33
yeah did it had also the component that you were saying about the Japan of like you being too tall too blonde to
28:42
anything like at the point of time I think South Africa is a little bit more mixtured uh right now but the yeah no I
28:50
I'm South Africa is one of the few places I can buy clothes in a normal shop that fit me Germany being another
28:55
one um German it's too early they open too
29:01
early for for going and they close too early so and they and they close on
29:06
Saturday afternoons and Sundays that was weird yes that was very weird yeah but the cafe and cooking is
29:15
good ah yeah that's true like everything that it's related with cakes and uh sitting
29:22
in a table to have a coffee or a tea with cakes at 6:00 p.m. or 5:00 p.m. no
29:28
6 p.m. it's dinner time already no uh 4 P.M uh yeah know I like
29:35
that what about South Africa Traditions uh things that you like how long did you
29:41
live there did you did you manage to adapt to to culturally to do things in a
29:48
in a I mean you said that you they train you a little bit and you do things in a special way but that's more for a protective perspective but did you man
29:55
to anti-hijacking lesson leave you feeling this weird mix of
30:03
terrified but empowered and sort of half hoping that someone will come and have a go at you so you can hit
30:10
them but no unfortunately we ended up living on a compound I mean everybody lives on a compound anyway but we lived
30:17
on an office compound so I did not like that but I joined in um various art
30:26
classes and such so I got to meet some wonderful people and have decent
30:32
conversations and and uh but yeah you're a little bit trapped when we very when we first arrived the first day that we
30:39
arrived husband was whisked off by the office and um you know it wasn't like they'
30:46
been waiting days for him to arrive we arrived when we were supposed to arrive
30:51
and I was completely ignored kind of used to that but nobody had got us any
30:57
food in nobody had got us any tea coffee milk and you cannot go you can't just
31:03
walk to a shop you can't walk anywhere and there is no public transport so
31:08
didn't have a car how am I going to get food I had to go around the estate knocking on doors to try and find somebody just to go and get some milk
31:15
and food so go yeah so I didn't like living on that that particular area but
31:22
the whole of living in Africa more than made up for it as long as I could get my weekend away and a safari I was happy
31:32
nice how old was your daughter back in the time with last month before going
31:37
back home you're GNA make me do math I work in years I don't work in ages so we
31:44
moved in 2013 to Africa okay so she was 12 and then we moved back to the UK in
31:53
2018 okay so she was she was about 16 when we moved back the
31:58
UK so she she grow up as a teenager in South Africa then yeah
32:06
yeah yeah it's a real shame because in Japan there's a lot of safety
32:12
and a lot of freedom but she was too young to have that and then in
32:18
Germany a little bit more freedom but not quite so safe and then when she was
32:24
ready for the freedom and the independence can't do it because Africa she still managed to be a
32:31
teenager it's okay they have Uber over
32:37
there a lot of taxis um you you said in in in a in a
32:45
moment I think I understood that you found a office job in South Africa all
32:50
of all these years you you were no no and then I get it I get it wrong like you didn't work these years that you
32:56
were abroad and or you were your own project I work for myself I I've been selfemployed
33:02
for exactly 30 years so wow I just different things yes I I know I I only
33:09
look 32 it's fine no I i' um I used to work in the city of London and until
33:16
1994 so I've always found my own work I used to be a freelance writer in
33:22
Japan um and then and then we're going to go into the whole story of xat child and stuff
33:30
but and let's skip that for the second part let me do a couple of last
33:36
questions then for for your expert life B I do a like a last uh recommendation
33:43
section but uh before that I wanted to ask you about the moment of going
33:49
back from 12 Years of living abroad back
33:54
home how how was that move uh I think a lot of people struggles with the with
34:00
the repatriation and and going back to a place that you called home for so many
34:07
years but it's not exactly the home that you left oh it was it was a lot it
34:14
was and because I've seen it from if you like an academic side with my work with
34:20
other expats but also from my own side it was hard because I didn't want
34:28
to come back I knew I had to so that whole it is what it is can't be helped
34:35
you know it's it's the way that it has to be but
34:41
people there are a lot of people who are desperately homesick when they're overseas and they want to come home and
34:48
they either come home expecting it to be the same as when they left and it never
34:54
is and you never are the same or they are so desperate to come back
35:00
because they have loathed where they've been living then they everything about moving
35:06
back is brilliant and happy and yeah so I I didn't want to come back I had to
35:11
come back I'm very good at just sort of dealing with whatever life FRS at me but it was still hard I actually woke up
35:18
about a week after got back home and the first thought when I woke up was I want
35:24
to go home now well hang on a minute where's home and had a whole day of what the hell was
35:30
that all about and but the other thing that I think makes a big difference is
35:37
how long you've lived in your country before you move if you move at the age of
35:43
2021 and then move back when you're say 3540 that's going to be a big change
35:48
because the amount of change that you go through as a person I'd already settled you know I
35:54
was already fully you know fully British
36:00
you know it it wasn't such a major deal it was still bloody hard it was still
36:07
really hard so and I just sort of got used to it all and then covid struck so
36:12
that was fun yeah of course I really forgot about that no no
36:20
sorry made aot big difference it made a lot of difference to the life of everybody definitely change of course
36:29
like what about your daughter like because for her maybe it wasn't like that much like for her maybe it was like
36:36
moving to a complete new country she probably knew that she was from there but she didn't remind too much about her
36:44
first five life five years of life no it wasn't home to her but she settled
36:49
incredibly quickly and um yeah she went she wasn't able to
36:54
go to school the British school systems kind of annoying and that they're not very flexible so she was actually out of
37:01
school for a year um before starting college so it wasn't the easiest arrival
37:07
and as I say we got back at beginning of 2018 she didn't she started college late
37:15
in 2018 did all of 2019 and then covid
37:21
so so it wasn't really a normal return I think
37:28
definitely not I mean I think anyone who has moved just before pandemic or during
37:33
pandemic has noticed that I don't know I live four years in Germany but I need to
37:39
take out two of them mainly because
37:44
of yeah I know that South Africa had a really really rough covid um because you
37:49
couldn't even leave your house and maybe maybe it was good that you
37:55
were in UK at that point of time already because of yeah I mean it worked out and
38:02
you know it is what it is and I will keep saying that because sometimes there's no point in looking back you as
38:09
I say you know looking back you're not going that way um yeah you know you have
38:14
to not necessarily accept your lot you can make it better but there's no good
38:21
wishing for a previous life if you wish for it that badly then go and make it happen no
38:28
you actually I I wanted to ask you a last
38:33
question before I do the the recommendations part it's something that I normally ask the other way around I as
38:40
people who are living abroad are you thinking to go back home at that point of are you thinking of moving away from
38:46
home again at some point in time no no absolutely not um and people find that
38:53
very very weird um but my husband actually lives
38:59
overseas so he couldn't hack yeah so he lives in Panama uh I stayed in the
39:06
UK mainly because I don't like the way that his employers look after the
39:14
accompanying Partners that's not something I'm going to go into here but I don't want to be a
39:20
part of that game anymore plus being back here allows me to collect more animals so
39:29
no I don't even want to go on a plane for a holiday my holidays now are
39:35
London I've just come back from my my um sort of twice yearly trip to London
39:41
where I absolutely cram everything in theaters parties all sorts brilliant
39:48
London is my sole City and I don't actually want to go on a plane
39:53
again too much hassle too much hassle
39:58
I mean you live your fur bit of it so I suppose it's also okay to say until here
40:05
no like and I did a hell of a lot of traveling beforehand I've backpacked
40:10
around South America I've backpacked around southeast Asia I've worked in
40:15
America I've worked in Europe I've worked in the Solomon Islands and Australia I've done it all I don't want
40:22
to sit on a plane for 12 hours listening to people cough and babies cry
40:28
yeah that's the worst part of planes I agree and the waiting hours in the
40:34
airport also like yeah that's that's another part of it get there two hours before and we'll
40:40
delay your plane for four so cool um so yeah just to close a
40:45
little bit this first part I would like you to ask a couple of recommendation uh questions I know it's very difficult now
40:53
because you have lived in quite so many countries so um some of it it's making
40:59
remind backs but uh the other also it's like okay I don't know if you want to really Compare food from one place or to
41:05
the other for example but um yeah the first question it would be like favorite
41:12
food from countries that you lived in like yes I I was those are the questions
41:18
that threw me I have to say um because it's to me it's so long ago I've slept since then but it would have to be
41:25
Sashimi any kind of Sashimi not sushi sushi you can but Sashimi is
41:33
incredible and it does put people off because it's raw fish but the texture is
41:39
brilliant but frankly any way you eat in Japan is amazing and it is really accessible I I
41:47
personally think it's accessible I can't recommend anywhere in Germany or anything in
41:52
Germany it's no secret that I didn't enjoy it but in Africa the all the food was
42:00
amazing it's so much fresher than the UK it tastes it the I thought the prices
42:07
were excellent and uh yeah the food in Africa I think was the way that food
42:14
used to be in the old days oh nice so traditional stuff but they like fresh
42:22
and yeah I mean I'm a carnivore so fill it steaks in Africa yeah
42:28
course um what about drinks um yeah that's not one that I can answer so you
42:36
know I I I don't drink now and I can't think of any because anything that I did drink
42:43
back then I can't remember but drink drinks are kind of the same all the all around the world you know you have a
42:49
logger it's kind of the same I'm not I was just wondering I don't know Africa
42:55
might have a different like I don't know the kind of mate for example from argentinia like or from oh yeah mate no
43:03
I can recommend mate in a very small place near EA in
43:10
Peru Rocket Fuel um no they have this um Africa it's called Amarula it's
43:18
a it's a bit sweet but apparently the elephants like to eat the fruit and get
43:23
drunk oh really which I'm not sure if that is true but yeah Amarula is the
43:31
African drink it would be funny to see an elephant drunk I never seen that
43:37
actually like I'm not sure I think it would be scary they were one of the few animals that were disturbingly
43:44
scary what about the music um are you a music person or all like do you
43:51
still yeah music is a massive massive part of my psyche I
43:58
but I couldn't actually tell you band recommendations okay um I mean I in
44:04
Japan I saw the Red Hot Chili Peppers and I saw the who in Berlin I
44:10
saw a violinist called David Garrett um and in ptor we saw Iron
44:19
Maiden in a field which were brilliant because they were one of the first bands I ever saw and so yeah music to me is
44:28
massive and I I can't be without music
44:33
and yeah um I did I do have a memory of an amazing buser if you like in Japan on
44:41
a road called a Mando where they were playing their um I don't even know what they called which is embarrassing I
44:47
should have done my homework so uh playing native instruments and it was incredibly haunting and very
44:53
beautiful and yeah
44:58
say I would say one last question would be if you had any secret spot or or
45:07
place that in the places where you live that you say okay this I would like to share if you're feeling that you don't
45:12
want to share it and you don't want to overwhelm the place I totally understand it
45:17
also well it's too long ago for Japan and Japan changes really quickly I could
45:24
drive take my daughter to school in the morning have a coffee with my girls come back and a house that was on the corner
45:30
would have been demolished so Japan changes really quickly my old home doesn't exist anymore um they kind of
45:39
condemned it after the earthquake so places that I remember from Japan
45:44
probably aren't there anymore but anywhere is incredible in
45:49
Japan Berlin we lived um in a an area outside of the city center called gral
45:57
which had the most amazing woodlands and lakes around so they're not secret but
46:03
just walk find Woods go inside you can find yourself a secret spot away from
46:10
the any crowds and just watch water for a while when it comes to Africa because
46:17
you can't really go out and about on your own you have to drive somewhere my
46:22
absolute two favorite spots they're not secret they're two Safaris to Safari
46:28
parks within driving distance one's called re Flay which is within ptor and
46:35
it has it has animals took the dog for a walk and we met a zebra she wasn't
46:40
impressed um and the other one is
46:48
panburger because it's contained within a very ancient but very huge volcanic
46:53
crater so it's got a natural barrier yeah all right and because it's smaller
47:00
than Krueger I mean anything smaller than Krueger you get to see and experience the most amazing Wildlife
47:06
they've got them all they've got the whole the big five and the little five and everything in between five but yeah
47:14
a day at pburg absolutely but stay in your car somebody got killed a couple of
47:22
weeks ago by not staying in their car oh go okay say the it's a good
47:28
recommendation yeah they're not they're notet they're not pets go the elephant lions are not big
47:37
cats no it is it is the way that I will die here kitty
47:43
kitty I think I SKT the question about restaurants but I don't know if like you really have qu responses because it's
47:51
this is It's years ago so it's complex to respond that so yeah is I did look up
47:59
um before and they don't seem to exist anymore
48:04
so things change unfortunately I think Co also strike pretty hard and a lot of
48:10
senses and this glos and everything so yeah cool um well with that said I would
48:17
say like I think we were already like starting to go into the direction of explaining a little bit so I would say
48:25
we can go directly to the to the the second part of the episode hey there everyone if you're
48:31
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description and book your session today with that said let's go back to the
49:11
episode the expert helping parents move abroad so as I already said a little bit
49:18
in the introduction you have multiple projects going around um one of them I
49:24
think the oldest one it's the expert child website um then it came the podcast then
49:31
it came the club um basically the whole concept around it it's
49:36
helping parents with uh expert children or it's helping experts so everyone
49:43
tells you to Niche down so I Niche down but now I'm niching out
49:48
so it it it evolves um just like life just like parenting my expat
49:58
sweet I suppose going to go Posh the EXP sweet has expanded
50:05
to Encompass as many people as I can so it started off with expat child you're
50:13
quite right and I started that in 2012 uh so we moved from Berlin uh so we
50:21
moved from Japan to berim and it took a year to recover
50:28
frankly sorry and I could not find
50:33
anything online on how to help my daughter with the anxiety that she was
50:40
experiencing before we moved before the earthquake take the earthquake out of the picture so there was just nothing
50:48
nothing to find apart from horror stories about moving overseas with your children and how it damaged them for
50:56
life and created third culture kids who had no roots and ended up in therapy for
51:03
many years uh so there was nothing that a stressed mother could
51:10
read and easily understand because it was all sort of Coach speak and lots of
51:15
words in a sentence that mean nothing so I couldn't really find anything so I turned to normal parents
51:23
you know in in the UK how would you explain got some sens of so you know
51:29
helped a little bit we had to move so and uh over the summer of 201 uh
51:38
2012 I me on holiday in Devon and I started scribbling it all out into a
51:44
notebook with the plan of writing a book and while I was in Japan I was I think I
51:51
said I was a freelance writer so I was doing a lot of writing and I was also blogging with a what ended up as a very
51:59
popular website because I was live blogging throughout the earthquake my personal blog kind of
52:06
turned into something else and um I sort of missed that but I was totally burned
52:11
out by the time I got to Berlin didn't want to write ever again but by 2012 I'm
52:17
write book write book there I want instant gratification I know what I'm
52:23
like I can fiddle around with chapters for years I'm going to write uh website and because I was still
52:31
missing my magazine I intent xat child was originally set up a bit like a
52:37
magazine um so not not a chronological personal blog but information and it
52:47
kind of took off it went a bit nuts got interviewed by all sorts of newspapers within a month or two of it going live
52:53
and uh and off it went so yeah cool very
53:01
nice it it takes some time some sometimes so to click the correct button and then suddenly everything Sky rocks
53:08
very fast no it can happen very fast these kind of things um I think one of the part that you said it was really
53:14
interesting that the fact that everything was probably written in a negative way or it was like all horror
53:22
horror stories as you as you put it stories yeah you you wanted also like
53:28
was part of the objective of writing the the website in a way that it wasn't
53:34
always carrying people but actually like it was more like okay turn it
53:41
around also from a positive perspective you've been there and it wasn't that bad as as other people were putting it or I
53:49
wouldn't say there was that much strategy involved but it was more of a case of
53:56
plain English I need to write plain English and I need to write informative
54:03
articles um that aren't all fluffy psych
54:08
you know fake psych speak and you know sort of like okay well I'm
54:14
doing my packing now so let's document what I'm doing um and this is what
54:19
culture shock is and and then sort of researching to find out how to prepare
54:26
children so at the time I'll be honest it was trailblazing I was the only one
54:31
that did this and of course once a bandwagon starts everyone jumps on board
54:38
so it was bit like Alice running to stand still for after a few years um but
54:47
yeah no it was it was purely as an information this is what oh this is what I've learned from first day of school
54:53
tips and this is what I've learned about what happens with a kid with culture shock
54:58
and how they express it and but put into a was it much coming from from a
55:06
personal thing or from your own personal experience or you were also like trying to do like research like trying to
55:11
interview other parents who were outside or like I don't know friends of yours that had children at that point of time
55:17
it was there's very there's a bit of personal experience um but due to my
55:26
I suppose my background my personality my skills it became more of a a research
55:34
project to find out how other people and then sort of mixing it all into one and extrapolating a a gen generic because
55:42
what I wanted to make sure was it it could apply to anybody from any country going to any country when I was first
55:50
searching for support I was just finding oh where's the best mother and child
55:55
place in this particular Canton in Canada or in this street in Austria
56:02
where can I go and get a decent coffee it was too too precise it wasn't important yeah
56:09
so yeah it was deliberately the only deliberate part of it was making it
56:15
General so for anyone in going to any country because you can't possibly know
56:21
everything about every country in the world no that's for sure impossible but at the
56:27
end like I don't know in your case you wanted to give general
56:33
information I suppose there's people who specialize or no no I want to give information about gree and how gree
56:39
works and that's okay also but exactly yeah and they have teams and they're specialized in that
56:46
and yeah that that was the reason what about team wise you you
56:51
always did it alone it has been always a solo project or or like you had other people involved
56:57
no it's always been me you I've had people um guest expert you know WR um
57:04
especially when I was moving I sort of put a call out and because everybody wants to get their name out there so I
57:11
had lots of offers of yeah I'll right while you're moving so that was cool that gave me a whole different aspect to
57:17
it as well so it's always nice to have people around also that are willing to do that
57:26
what about the podcast when when does that happen when did you decide I want to do a podcast okay so expat child kept
57:34
going and going and going and then we were in Africa and expat
57:42
ability was born for a different reason and it was more of a way of gathering
57:48
all sorts of different articles that have appeared on expat child into one
57:54
site so that became expat ability because my brain goes yeah we need a new
57:59
one so that's what that did um and then mve back and I started making offers for
58:06
oneto ones and support and um things when I got back in 2018 but the expa
58:12
ability chat podcast started in the middle of the pandemic everyone was saying oh you got
58:18
a nice voice my voice sounded different I'll explain why in a
58:24
minute so everyone was saying well you need to do a podcast you need to do a podcast all
58:29
right I'll do a podcast so I started doing a podcast because so many people
58:34
were moving back in such difficult circumstances during the um pandemic
58:42
they didn't know if that this was the end of the world at the beginning of it um they were moving back home to be with
58:48
their family but within a couple of weeks they oh my God why we why are we here
58:54
so the first one was about repatriation and it kind of went on because as I say all of these articles there are over 400
59:01
articles on expat child and some of them are about the same topics so the podcast
59:07
was a way of me bringing them into one episode with some extra research that
59:13
have you know of grown up over the years so I started doing the podcast as I say
59:18
in the middle of the pandemic because I got bored with making banana bread and needed to be out the way so I came pod
59:25
it's also pandemic child so I I will not say anything about that oh I'm glad it's
59:31
not just Mickey that is brilliant oh no no no no actually not like I had an interview last week and she has another
59:39
podcast called exp podcast and she also started during pandemic I think there was a lot of people starting podcast
59:45
during pandemic so don't worry the difference is who is still alive and who
59:50
is who this podcast is still recording which is also very true because I'm not
59:57
uh because in 2022 I had to have an operation on my throat and managed to do
1:00:05
a few more episodes for um in 2023 but that was it it was too much so I stopped
1:00:12
recording my podcast in 2023 I still get emails can I be on your podcast go have
1:00:18
a look uh but because the topics are evergreen they'll still be useful but
1:00:26
you know the only ones that aren't you know being you know sympathizing with people during the pandemic and such and
1:00:33
talking about the pandemic but in general they're all Evergreen so yeah so the the podcast was
1:00:41
a a thing to reach different people and you know people who prefer to listen
1:00:47
rather than read so it was an interesting experience for you it was
1:00:52
like putting like pieces together like our different articles on these 400
1:00:57
impressive articles that you had in there but also doing a little bit more research you also interviewed people
1:01:03
like you also get the guest uh episodes only um only about three or
1:01:11
four okay because it was my intention that it would be makes sense that that's one of the
1:01:19
few things I've had strategy with but uh yeah it was a way of summarizing the
1:01:26
many many articles so on a topic of choosing a school you know there's
1:01:32
probably 15 articles that just appeared into one uh one episode so nice very
1:01:41
cool what about the sponsibility club itself when it comes is that the part
1:01:47
where it comes more like coach related is that the like when it comes the and
1:01:53
because I know you have like master classes now you're doing also oneon-one calls with people like is all of that
1:02:00
coming through that most is yeah kind of master classes are the
1:02:08
most commonly asked questions that I have on one to one calls so it it was xack guilt for a
1:02:18
while and then should I stay or should I go and those are the main ones
1:02:27
so they they just get recorded and then they're uploading the expat ability Club is undergoing a lovely new
1:02:36
uh oh I don't know a reincarnation if you like because I'm moving out of expat
1:02:43
child my child's left me and gone and grown up and stuff and so I don't want
1:02:49
to talk about children anymore no that's not quite the case but I want to expand
1:02:55
and because like life changed for so many people over covid and so many people now work from home and they can
1:03:03
they' seen the other side they want to work from anywhere so I'm helping create
1:03:09
location Independence and move abroad and so I can do the whole move abroad thing and I
1:03:15
can do the whole location Independence bring them all together into the expa ability club and it's an information and
1:03:21
advice Hub club membership so that's what the current the current focus in
1:03:29
life is I should do one for X pet shouldn't I oh yeah you should definitely I mean you
1:03:37
have experience with it so that's a that's the next Niche to rules too
1:03:43
much so yeah it's the the club is a um a
1:03:49
sort of a distilling again of all of the information and insight that I've had over the years that I've got
1:03:56
plus extras from incredible um experts in their field
1:04:03
and a chance to talk with me oneon-one
1:04:08
and get my information uh get my advice and info without coming on a onetoone
1:04:14
call with me I need to protect my time I need to protect my voice
1:04:20
and doing oneto ones is very intense so they they're save you know for for other
1:04:29
people makes sense very nice um so that's the project that opened a little
1:04:35
bit the niche that you were saying no not not yeah not just parents anymore um
1:04:42
what I was Finding was it did start off with parents and about their children but then also expat Partners those of us
1:04:50
who move overseas as a trailing space we hate that phrase but it's the one that gets Ed so we quite often have to give
1:04:58
up our jobs our careers to support our other half and sometimes the company
1:05:03
that they're working for are great sometimes they're not sometimes they offer you a job sometimes you're not
1:05:10
suited to working for them and it can be quite a shock to the system and to
1:05:16
Identity you're just sort of bit of a plus one is the new phrase
1:05:21
I've heard which I'm throwing around all over the place so yeah so it started moving to expat partners and now anybody
1:05:30
who wants to move overseas anybody who wants to be um I know fan life digital Nomad all
1:05:36
this sort of stuff cool um then I will ask one last
1:05:43
question probably and so we can close this section also and it would be like how does a day for you look like uh with
1:05:50
all these products like what what do you do like normally with it are are you really like spending time writing
1:05:59
articles for for one or the other what what how with your normal no I don't write articles anymore
1:06:08
um so expat child it it wasn't paused I mean it's all still incredibly relevant I'll
1:06:15
update every now and again and republish and so on um I don't record any podcasts
1:06:21
anymore and everything else kind of ticks over I mean automations are in incredible for social media
1:06:28
and yeah my I don't have an average working day I've written down in answer
1:06:34
to your how how does a work day look for you hurting
1:06:40
cats Paradise where do I need to sign in yeah so it isn't something that I I'm
1:06:47
not very good at um blocking out time and having a set day uh you know I sort
1:06:56
of have certain things that I do every week twice a week whatever but it it's
1:07:02
not either it's not even reactive it's uh I'll have uh meetings planned and
1:07:08
I'll have meetings with my mentors planned and that's about as far as I go
1:07:14
and then I'll just sort of respond to emails or I'll have a brain wave of something but I'm not actually producing
1:07:21
content for the website or the podcast anymore and those were the real time
1:07:26
sucks and they had to be released into the wild for the sake of my
1:07:34
sanity but because they're yeah because they're Evergreen
1:07:40
they're they're valid and they're relevant so just a few tweaks here and there and
1:07:47
uh and they they work on their own so they don't need updating
1:07:52
much well um then with that I think the last question it's always more or less
1:07:59
the same I suppose you responded a little bit about it whoever is interested on checking uh um the exper
1:08:07
ability podcast it's out there the expert child uh articles the all website
1:08:12
it's out there so for whoever it's interesting this uh it's still available
1:08:18
and it will continue to still to be available but right now your focus is a little bit more in theability club so I
1:08:25
suppose that would be the place to find you if someone wants to find you around
1:08:31
if people want to find me just search online uh for my name I am everywhere or
1:08:38
you can email me at hello xail Donnet hopefully that comes across okay on the
1:08:45
sound uh but yeah just search for my name you'll find me there's only one of me
1:08:52
so well uh with that said thanks a lot thank you very much ARL for for taking
1:08:59
the time and the boys uh to to take one
1:09:04
hour of your time and your boys uh to we come back to the podcast scene a little
1:09:10
bit for for for such an amount of time it has been real pleasure to have you
1:09:16
Mar incredible story it's an honor to be here and it's so much more fun answering
1:09:22
questions than trying to think of my own things it's uh absolutely fantastic thank you so
1:09:30
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